Is destiny fixed or flexible? If it is flexible then how?
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Question from Jayanthi Prabhu. This is a question that was forwarded by Jayanthi Prabhu to some other devotee, Gautari Chaitanya Prabhu, and he forwarded it to me. So it's a long question.
Essence of the question is, is destiny fixed or is it flexible? If so, how? So I attended lecture, Acts of God by Chaitanya Chaitanya Prabhu. There he mentioned that destiny is flexible. I want to know how it is flexible.
He gave an example of Duryodhana and Dhritarashtra. He said that as Guru dynasty was destined to be destroyed by Duryodhana, Dhritarashtra did support it by not bringing Duryodhana in proper consciousness. I asked the question after the lecture that if Dhritarashtra would have brought Duryodhana in proper consciousness then would it have prevented the destruction of Guru dynasty? His answer was yes.
I got confused here because I am not able to clearly distinguish the relationship between free will and destiny. From my thinking, if Guru dynasty was destined to be destroyed, then others become only puppets playing their role and it will happen. Bringing of Duryodhana in improper consciousness is part of that destiny.
We have seen many examples where in spite of putting many efforts, many people are not able to achieve what they want and on the contrary we see many people can achieve their goals with ease. Many examples of sports players, actors, etc. One sports player wanted to become a football player and he planned his life accordingly.
Suddenly one day a tennis coach observed him and thought that he can become a good tennis player. Therefore, he trained him accordingly and now he is one of the top tennis players in tennis world. That means he was destined to become tennis champion and the tennis coach just played his role.
I have my wife's example. When she showed her kundali to her grandfather, who was an extremely talented astrologer, very well known in Cholapur, he said that you cannot become a doctor and you will become an engineer and you will also miss 10th merit. That time she was in 8th or 9th and consecutively securing top rank in the school.
To their surprise, she really missed her 10th merit by few marks and missed admission to medical by one mark. So, she was destined to become an engineer in spite of how many efforts she put in to get into medical side. As per Shri Chaitanya Charundu, we should try our best, but if it does not happen, then it is destiny or lord's wish.
This means ultimately everything depends on lord's wish in spite of what efforts you put in, which again means that our destiny is fixed. If my wife's destiny was to become a doctor, she could have become in spite of any conditions and we saw many such examples. If we say that destiny can be changed, then that is also known to Krishna and I think what is known to Krishna is our destiny, isn't it? Answer.
Firstly, let me clarify that I didn't say that it was the will of destiny that the Guru dynasty be destroyed. What I said was that Dhritarashtra said like this, that Dhritarashtra tried to rationalize his passivity by saying that if it is the will of destiny, then it should be destroyed. Will of destiny that Guru dynasty be destroyed, then it will be destroyed.
So, Vidura actually replied neither by confirming nor denying the point that Guru dynasty was just trying to be destroyed. He simply said that destiny determines the consequences of our actions, not our actions themselves. That means Vidura focuses primarily on the irresponsibility and inaction of Dhritarashtra, not on what the will of destiny is.
So, now at one level we could say that everything that happens in the Lord's pastimes is pre-arranged by the Lord. So, in that sense we could say that Dhritarashtra's misbehavior and the upbringing that caused that misbehavior and the destruction of the Guru dynasty, all that is destined. But, both from the material moral perspective and the spiritual Rasik perspective, this analysis doesn't fear substantiation, vindication by the way things are done by those who are participating.
From the material perspective, if we start saying that everything is destined, then there is nothing to be learned by the actions from anyone or by the inactions from anyone. And we do see that the scriptures do talk about moral choices in a very serious way, recognizing what the responsibility is in particular situations. For example, when Lord Ram is sentenced to be banished by Dashrath due to the evil desire and conspiracy of Vaikri, at that time the Ramayana and Lakshman hotly opposes that and Lakshman says that we should not passively submit to injustice like that.
So, there is an elaborate discussion of destiny and Lord Ram says it is the will of destiny that we go to the forest. Then Lakshman replies that only cowards submit to injustice calling it as destiny. Brave people fight back and I will stop this injustice from happening.
Then Lord Ram replies that I am not concerned with, basically Lord Ram says that I am concerned with what my duty is, what is the correct course of action for me. My correct course of action is following my father. What motivated my father to act in a particular way is not my concern.
What my father is asking me to do is not immoral. As his son, he has a right to order me in whatever way he wants and it is my duty to follow him. So, Lakshman says that no, no, no.
He has lost his intelligence because of lust. Lakshman is very angry at this point and when he is acting irresponsibly because of lust, we are not duty bound because he is not acting like a father. We are not duty bound to act like a son.
Then the discussion goes on and then Lord Ram says that actually Bharat is also going to be a good administrator. Bharat is competent to rule the world and if my father decides, it is his right to decide which son should rule the world. And basically Lord Ram focuses on the point of obeying his father and not judging the motives of his father in asking him to go to the forest.
So, essentially the point which I am making through this is that the characters in the scriptures weigh their actions very thoughtfully before making decisions and that kind of weighing indicates two things. First of all, that we should also weigh our actions in this way and secondly, we are held accountable, we are held responsible for the decisions that we make. So, at another level, we could say that ultimately the Ramayana had to happen and so, Lord Ram had to go out of Ayodhya only when he went to Dandakar and then he is without being kidnapped and then there will be confrontation between Ram and Ravana and that is how the full purpose of Ramayana, of the descent of Ram to kill Ravana would be fulfilled.
That is all right, but the ultimate purpose can be fulfilled by the Lord in various ways and that doesn't necessarily, from a moral perspective, justify Kaikeyi's conspiratorial behavior. So, we could say that everything is arranged by the Lord. Madhvacharya says that the pastimes of the Lord can be, itihagas can be understood at three levels.
One is the literal, second is the ethical and third is the metaphorical. So, literal refers to the pastimes of the Lord and even if we don't analyze them, just hear them, just write them, that will purify us. So, it is said about the Ramayana that Lord Ram's character has been described elaborately by the great souls and then each syllable in the glorification of Lord Ram can destroy great, great sins.
So, that is true definitely and that is the literal level. We hear it without analyzing, but the Acharyas themselves give us analysis about what courses of action are right and what are wrong and that's how we learn. So, this is understanding Ramayana at the moral level.
So, at one level, we could say that everybody who participates in the Lord's pastimes are his eternal associates and therefore, everything that happens there is entirely destined. So, we could say like that at one level, but within the pastimes, we see that there is moral factors consideration while making decisions. Now, of course, at an entirely transcendental level also, the Lord is relishing the pastimes.
So, when Krishna is going to steal butter, it is not that Krishna is in advance aware that, oh, I am going to get caught or I am not going to get caught and they are going to come from here and they are going to do this. So, they actually strive earnestly and make plans so that they can get away undetected. When Arjuna is fighting the war at a transcendental level, all the characters go deep into the role and although they want a particular result, it is not that they act irresponsibly, the result will automatically come.
Prabhupada says that Arjuna doesn't say to Krishna, Krishna, you are God, you kill the enemy, I will sit and drink hunger. So, Prabhupada is caricaturing here the attitude of people who don't want to take up the responsibility of serving Krishna. So, this is the first point that I did not say that the destruction of the Kuru was destined.
Yes, we could say that it was destined, but that is not the way the characters act within the moral reasoning that we find in the scriptures. Now, beyond that, the concepts of karma and destiny are in many ways like the concept of ether in the physical atmosphere. We know that ether is everywhere, but still it is nowhere as far as we try to detect it.
Similarly, karma and destiny, they are always there everywhere. They are repeatedly referred to in the scriptures, but in the scriptures, as far as I have seen, there is no singular focus where the various factors of karma and destiny can be seriously and systematically analysed. So, it is not that there is a chapter in the scriptures of karma and destiny.
No, these are concepts that are repeatedly referred to in the scriptures and by the way they are referred to in the narration and by the way characters who know these concepts act, we can only infer from that how karma and destiny actually work. So, we do see definitely that the scriptures do not recommend passivity in the scriptures. They do definitely recommend proactivity in the sense that the characters do take responsible actions all the time.
Arjuna fights the war. Lord Ram fights the war. Fighting a war is probably the most direct form of being proactive, assertive, even aggressive.
So, now, not at all exactly in this time. You know, you gave the example of somebody becoming a doctor, a person becoming a tennis player instead of a football player. Yes, we could say that these are what was meant for by destiny, but even in those cases, now that particular tennis player did train very diligently.
So, in this unfurling of destiny automatic, well, our endeavour does play a role. If that player does not take care of the health, does not work hard to train, then would that person become a famous tennis player? We could go and say that, oh, even the hard work is the strength. If you start saying like that, then basically we become like programmed beings.
We have no freedom. That definitely is not the teaching of the scriptures. How do we know that we have freedom? Well, from our own experience, we know that we can make choices.
I can be giving this answer or I can just say that this subject is too messy and I do not want to poke my nose into it. You could hear this answer or you could say that this whole business is just too inconclusive. Let me forget it.
So, from our own experience, we know that we have freedom. From the scriptural characters, we do see that they consider their actions seriously, at least most of the characters in most situations. And they accordingly choose actions, which indicates that they do feel that they have the capacity to make choices, which means that they have freedom.
And further, Lord Baldev Jayavisham Vishwamitra Prabhupada tells that the scriptures give us do's and don'ts. And there would be no meaning to the scriptures giving us do's and don'ts if we did not have the capacity to make choices, which also again indicates that we have freedom to make choices. So, the scriptures focus primarily on guiding us to use our free will properly.
Their focus is not on explicitly telling us what is destined and what is not destined. So, now, is destiny changeable? What I clearly said is that the word destiny can be used to mean many things. So, if we say that destiny refers to the accumulated reservoir of our past karmic deeds and their positive and negative reactions, then that is fixed because the past karma has already been done.
And we see that the shlokas that Shri Prabhupada would quote in this context, are two. One is in the first canto, where Narada is instructing Vyasadeva that, Vyasadeva heto prayatethi kovido labhyate brahmatam uparyaduparyada labhyate go nanyatadukham kalena sarvatyagatheeranam sa The verse says that one should endeavor for that purposeful end which we cannot achieve by wandering in all the 14 planetary systems in the material world. They will come by the progression of time, kalena sarvatyagatheeranam sa.
So, why endeavor for them? So, the context of this discussion is that Narada wants to continue Vyasadeva to focus on exclusively glorifying the Lord and he wants to emphasize that whatever material happiness and little distress we get, that will get by the progression of time. Therefore, focus the energy on the glorification of the Supreme Lord. And similarly, in Prahlad Maharaj's teachings, Prahlad Maharaj also says that, shukham indriyakam daityam dehyogena dehinam sarvatrilabhyate daivagyathadukhamayatnataha.
So, he is also urging his classmates to start practicing devotional service. In that context, he says that by the contact with a particular body, by daiva, by the contact with a particular body, we will get that. Just as we get distress without endeavoring, similarly, we will get happiness also without endeavoring.
Now, if we look at the overall tenor of these teachings, the Bhagavatam in general builds up from the platform of aparadharma towards paradharma. That means that the Bhagavatam accepts that dharma, artha, kama, moksha are valid teachings, but then it says that there is a higher teaching, that is the teaching of prema. And in that sense, it says that actually striving for heavenly planets through doing karmakanda rituals, dharma, artha, kama, that is futile, because that ultimately keeps us in material existence.
And all that is achieved there is temporary. Therefore, one should strive for transcendental spiritual world by practicing bhakti. So now, that means the Bhagavatam, as seen from both of these Narayani and paradharma teachings, as well as the overall thrust of the Bhagavatam, is focusing on encouraging us to practice bhakti and not get distracted by the practices, by the promises of karmakanda.
Now, that means one should not try to increase one's material happiness by material means, because that is going to be futile. But the essential point here is, is the Bhagavatam recommending total material passivity? If we look at the life of Prahlad Maharaj himself, when he became the king, he did act responsibly. He was working around and doing the administration in a competent way.
And we don't see any evidence from his life that he just neglected his royal duties, saying that everything is destined. As a king, he acted responsibly. When Pruthu Maharaj, petitioned by his citizens, who told him that we are suffering because of starvation, because there is no food on the earth, he did not tell them that except this is the will of destiny.
So, he did do his duty as a king. That means that we do have our duties and we should do our duties. So, the point over here in both these sections is that we should not let the hope for material happiness enamor us so much that we get caught up in it and neglect spiritual advancement, because in spiritual advancement alone we'll get lasting and fruitful unhappiness.
So, we definitely should endeavor. And after events turn out in a particular way, which turns out to be good, then we understand that I was destined for this. But when we are doing that, we don't know in advance that destiny is this particular thing.
This was what I was destined to do. So, we have to intelligently choose where the consequences of different choices and then make the right decisions based on Guru Sadhu Shastra. So, when I said that destiny is flexible, all that I meant was that the manifestation of destiny can be changed by our actions in this life.
So, the examples for that can be many. We are destined to have a punctured tire when I'm driving my car. But it's not destined that at that time I should be driving at a speed of 150 and therefore that punctured tire causes a disastrous fatal accident.
And we can very well say that driving at the speed of 50 or 150, that is in my hands. So, even astrology to some extent is based on this principle that astrologers will tell that at this time there is some danger for you, so be careful. So, that means they will tell you do this or do that and be careful.
What does that mean? That time if there is danger, then if we act recklessly, things will become worse. But if we act cautiously, then the problems will be lesser. It will be lesser.
The manifestation of destiny can be changed in the sense that certainly, as Prahlad Maharaj says that, that without endeavouring, misery will come in our life. And so, the reason is that even happiness will come. But what does that mean is that the way we act can either minimize the effects of that misery coming or can aggravate and maximize those effects.
So, if I'm driving at 50, the puncture can cause minimal damage. If I'm driving at 150, the puncture can cause far, far greater damage. So, yes, a particular player could have been destined to be a tennis player, but he did not know in advance that he was supposed to be a tennis player and he endeavoured.
He worked hard doing all the training and then that's how he became a tennis player. So, we should not use the concept of destiny to not do hard work ourselves and to not give others credit for having done their hard work. We can say that ultimately, it was this time that Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's mission should spread all over the world.
So, if we just take the role of destiny in that way, then what is the glory of Prabhupada? It is all destiny. But then, when we see how hard Prabhupada worked and how he met different challenges, we can learn from that and we can take inspiration. If we say everything is this time, then where is the inspiration? There is a story of how the Maharaj Kaur's stories were searching for Vedic India, how fatalism leads to self-induced disasters.
The Catholic missionaries were in South America. So, one of the missionaries earned the trust of the local people. I think they were the Mayan or the Aztec people at that time.
He came to know from them that they have a legend that in future, if an army attacks us at a particular time, at a particular date, then we will be defeated. So, now from a military point of view, the invaders were so few in number that they could not have defeated the tribals, the natives. But this missionary sent a message to the other Christians who were there and they came with a small army at exactly that time.
And when these natives were in huge numbers with weapons, when they saw the army coming at that time, although it was small, they just passively accepted that as a will of destiny and they accepted defeat. And then, in keeping with the intolerance that was characteristic of Catholicism's takeover of South America, the native culture was completely destroyed. Their temples and everything were completely reduced to ashes and only those people who converted were allowed to live.
Everyone else was labeled as pagans and tortured and killed. And it was very brutal. So, now, was all that suffering destined? Well, they didn't have to accept defeat that way, but because of their pitalistic beliefs, they accepted all that suffering.
So, in that sense, we have to be cautious about whether I am being responsible in what I am doing right now. That is what we should check. And beyond that, we shouldn't bother too much about destiny.
The scriptures do encourage the point of responsibility for us and they do ask us to act based on thoughtful deliberation. So, in that sense, we should deliberate, look at our choices and then make responsible decisions. Thank you.