Is the soul projected to the material world as in a virtual reality or has the soul actually fallen to the material world?

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
question in the PI documentary simulated worlds is shown how just as our consciousness is projected into a virtual world in virtual reality setup like that the soul’s consciousness is projected in the material world so then the question arises is our present material existence is the soul just projected into material existence in terms of its consciousness or has the soul actually come from the spiritual world to the material world there are many past times like Tukaram had a past time when a plane came to take him back which seemed to indicate the soul was actually here and he was taken back to the spiritual world so what is the actual understanding answer firstly when we talk about spirit it is not really very easily conceivable with our current material intelligence because when we say a body our understanding is a body is made up of say flesh or bones or whatever objects are made up of gross substances they are all matter so how can something be made up of such dana what does that mean actually and we may have a linear idea of say there are 14 planetary systems and beyond them there is a spiritual world but actually this is just a depiction of what is a far more subtler and complex reality because although the spiritual world is eternal when we say that the way we talk about we generally talk about it it almost appears to be like a spiritual world and material world almost appear to be geographically continuous up till this point in the material world then beyond that there is a river and beyond that is spiritual world so this idea made this sort of presentation is useful for giving us overall understanding of the cosmology and that we have a kingdom of god where we need to go back but the spiritual world is radically different from the material world it is satchitananda whereas the whole material world is asatachitananda so it’s not exactly like a simple geographical continuity but it’s a radical difference that’s why applying material conceptions to transcendence can lead to confusion so to illustrate this concept generally in our sampradaya it has been talked about actually when we get dreams what happens so in my dream I may experience some other place so is it that just a vision I get or do I actually go to that place so normally speaking it is a vision I get but there are some situations when a person can even go to that place and for example there are people who can there is something called parakaya pravesh that is a siddhi one of the minor yogic siddhis by which a person can project himself outside his own body and into somebody else’s body so in that case the person’s body is still there but at a subtle level the person has travelled out so there are outer body experiences in science which at least acknowledges possibility and provides some evidence for it and in the Vedic scriptures there is siddhi of parakaya pravesh which gives a higher dimension explanation of how this can happen at the level of subtle body the point is from an observer’s perspective or even from an experiencer’s perspective during the dream it appears as if the person has actually gone out he is experiencing that for real so whether it is actually a person gone out or a person still in the body experiencing a vision it is very difficult for the observer to know so this example I am giving to illustrate the point that there are certain realms where our normal conceptions of geometry or geography don’t apply so similarly with respect to the soul falling from the spiritual world to the material world Sadhguru is giving that presentation primarily to scientific audience to address a fundamental problem in modern physics or in modern philosophy in general about how spirit and matter can interact because according to modern science actually this particular argument that there is no mechanism by which spirit and matter can interact that is what has led to the exile of the soul from modern intellectual thought because according to mainstream science matter is affected by material phenomena so for example if I raise my hand then for example if a fly comes and bites me and I move my hand like this so actually there seems to be a causally complete explanation signals move from here they go to the brain they come out so there is no no sort of place for the soul in this route nor is there any scope for any soul to affect this so basically what scientists talk about is the causal completeness of physics of science in general where all material effects and material phenomena can be explained in the material causes and if that is there then no soul is required at all so of course there are multiple ways to control this issue because this causal completeness does not at all address the experiential aspect so when I feel itchy and I move my hand if I have a if I have malaria and a mosquito is about to bite my hand I become terrified somebody else has never had malaria mosquito is coming so why the difference in experience in the basic neural and circulatory pathway is the same that cannot be explained so therefore that is not necessarily complete account but it is explained that in a virtual reality setup say somebody there is a thief and a police and say the thief is running and the police shoots a bullet so if the person is playing the video game he is identifying himself as a thief then at the level of the movie the police shooting the bullet is enough for the thief to fall down but the experience that the person has that is something which is quite intense depending on how much the person is absorbed in the video game and that does not have an explanation in terms of the digital circuitry of the computer that is generating the virtual reality so from the material point of view the digital circuitry may be complete but still by the control of an operator control of a video game player the overall direction can be shifted so in the virtual reality the player basically has his consciousness projected in the virtual reality and he directs the trajectory of the game so this is how in terms of modern science and modern philosophy you can give an example of how within a causally complete system an outer consciousness can interact and influence both so like that even if we acknowledge the causal completeness of physics bio chemistry biophysics in terms of the body still a soul can project that is primarily an explanation given for that intellectual context so is that an absolute principle that all that is there is a projection itself that is not necessarily the complete understanding because modern science has a limited way of looking at things where it always starts with matter and then maybe as a concession some other reality will be acknowledged but the primary focus is matter so the idea of projection allows spirit to intervene in matter and offers a mechanism of how that can happen but for if we are looking at another world view where matter is secondary and spirit is primary then actually speaking it will only be a projection that will be what is primarily talked about what will be talked about will be the concept that actually it is the spirit for whose sake the whole matter is being created and the spirit is actually right there and the spirit is actually experiencing so for all practical purposes just like in a dream I may well be travelling in a certain world to America when I am experiencing say the civil war in America that happened maybe one and half centuries ago or whatever that’s what I am dreaming about so now when I have even case whether I am physically travelling or not physically mentally actually travelling outside or I am just envisioning the whole thing the process for waking up is what is important so in general for the specific context of explain to modern scientists we can call it a projection but from the broader philosophical perspective is it just a projection no it is something deeper and the exact nature of the illusion that is there that is entangled in the soul that is actually trapped in the soul material existence is not something which we can understand through simplistic analogies we may use some analogies metaphors to give us a broad understanding because the scriptures themselves give various examples for example this is somebody chasing after mirage somebody is dreaming mirage actually indicates an active pursuit in a physical realm dreaming indicates a passive experience in an imaginary realm another example that is given is of for illusion the example is often given is of a person who accepting a drop of water and imagining that a drop of water is there but actually it will not satisfy the oceanic need for water so now is it a mirage or is it a dream or is it a drop of water but the actual experience is like shakha chandra nayan means there are two branches and in between there is the moon the child has to be shown the moon first can you see this branch can you see this branch can you see the child moon between yes now i have seen the moon the child was earlier looking around couldn’t see the moon but the branches guide the vision of the child so that he can see the moon but if the child says oh the moon is between the two branches then i will climb up the branch and i will catch the moon it won’t work because although the moon is between the two branches the moon is very far away the branches are both material both are closer references it helps a person to see the moon like that all material explanations like say projection or fall so both are basically material conceptions the projection also is a material conception itself and fall involves a physical relocation physical displacement that is also a material conception so neither material conception actually accurately depicts the exact existence of the soul but for all practical purposes it is like we are here and we have to go back there so that understanding from a functional point of view from operational practical point of view is the best understanding that we can have and we always talk about it we are in the material world we have to go back to God and this seems to talk about this being one geographical place that being another geographical place although the reality is much deeper from a philosophical perspective much more intricate and complex but from a functional perspective this is a good understanding to have especially Prabhupada often talks about the fact that we have fallen from the spiritual world and we have to go back to the spiritual world so on a few occasions as he may give the example of a dream also but the general emphasis on his teachings which is based on the Vedic scriptures is that we should treat it as if we have fallen from the spiritual world and we actually have to go back to the spiritual world now what actually it is that is something which as Krishna says is actually the nature of the soul is is is inconceivable so that’s why this now we know Krishna is inconceivable why the soul call him inconceivable we are the souls why should we be calling him inconceivable because right now we are using a material apparatus we are using a material mind and senses material intelligence to understand that which is spiritual so that apparatus is not really proper for us to understand we can get a general understanding but we cannot get an exhaustive understanding so for a functional perspective we should take that we have to go back to the spiritual world