KC and World Religions 4 – Islam

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
…Rama Rama, Hare Hare… …Hare Krishna… …so today we’ll… …continue… …and discuss about… …Islam… …so I’ll start by discussing some facts… …and in the later half… …we’ll discuss… …some of the interactions… …the statements that our… …Acharyas have made… …and how we can understand from our… …philosophical perspective… …so today… …around out of the 6.5 billion people of the… …billion people of the world… …1.5 around those are… …Muslims… …so almost one out of every four persons is a Muslim… …and the second largest religion in the world… …and it is the largest growing… …fastest growing religion in the world… …of course it is growing not so much by conversion… …but as I mentioned by… …reproduction… …the average… …world birth rate is 2.5… …the average Muslim birth rate is 8… …the average world birth rate is around 2.5… …the average Muslim birth rate is around 8… …birth rate means two parents… …beget 2.5 children… …it’s like that… …on an average… …but two Muslims beget 8 children… …so now it’s like 2.5… …and you said they beget 8… …it is basically 4… …it works out to be 4 per person… …but the person get… …population get expand 4 times… …like that… …so… …large parts of the world… …like… …and there are several places in Europe… …which have already become… …almost majority Muslim… …and within the next 15-20 years… …most of Europe… …will become majority Muslim… …within 50 years… …the way it is reproducing… …reproducing… …America will become Muslim majority… …so… …as of now… …the maximum Muslim population… …is in Asia… …and interestingly… …it is not the Arab countries… …it is Indonesia, Pakistan, India and Bangladesh… …India has… …a large number of Muslim population… …because India has a large population in general… …so now… …there are two main divisions among Muslims… …most of the Muslims… …more than 80% are… …Sunnis… …Sunnis they call… …and there are… …remaining are Shias… …so we will discuss what is the difference a bit later… …and of course there are many many sides… …but these two are the… …major broad divisions… …and… …so these are… …Shias are primarily majority in Iran… …and there are some other places also… …and wherever else Muslims are there… …they are mostly Sunnis… …so now… …Islam spread very rapidly all over the world… …within one century of its establishment… …it had… …started going… …both… …eastwards towards India… …and… …westwards and northwards… …westwards towards Africa… …northwards towards Europe… …so actually… …there’s a French king Charles Martel… …who stopped… …otherwise all of Europe would have fallen to… …Islam… …so Spain… …was for a large part of its history… …almost 700 years… …800 years… …was a Muslim… …under Muslim rule… …so I mentioned about the Crusades earlier… …they went from… …almost 200 years… …between Muslims and… …Christians… …and they left very bitter feelings on both sides… …and the Ottoman… …Ottoman Empire is today more or less Turkey… …and that was also a very powerful empire… …and that also send its actors in different parts of the world… …so going back… …so this is how Islam has spread… …in different parts of the world… …we’ll talk about Islam spread in India a little later… …but going back to its start… …so Muhammad… …the prophet Muhammad’s full name is… …Muhammad ibn Abdullah… …so he lived for around 62 years… …so he was born in a… …relatively… …not so well to do family… …and at about time of his birth… …his father died… …when he was around 6… …his mother died… …and since then he was… …looked after by his grandfather… …who provided him the necessities… …but he never taught him to read or write… …so Muhammad… …could neither read nor write throughout his life… …and he lived to a large part of his life in poverty… …and Khadija was a wealthy business woman over there… …in that community… …in Arabia… …and he was serving as an assistant… …she was almost 15 years older to him… …the… …age is very… …but quite much older to him… …and as you know he proved himself to be a competent assistant… …and then gradually he… …they both got married to each other… …and that was the beginning of his change of fortunes… …so from the material point of view… …Muhammad’s life… …is… …a life of remarkable dangers and successes… …he was born in poverty… …almost orphaned… …and then he rose to material… …and also… …spiritual fortune… …so now… …when… …till the age of 40… …his life was entirely normal… …and at the age of 40… …many… …many… …the people who were living there… …they were… …more or less… …all of them… …there were different beliefs that had come upon… …over there… …but most of them… …were… …Jews… …a large number of them were Jews… …some of them were Christians also… …as we mentioned earlier… …all of them belong to the same tradition… …and there were other… …local beliefs which were also there… …so all this happened… …in the area of Mecca… …so Mecca and Medina… …are the two important cities… …for Muslims… …the third is Jerusalem… …which of course is not… …under Muslim control right now… …so Mecca… …was the place where Muhammad… …lived most of his life… …and that’s where he married… …Khalid Khadija… …and that’s where he was living… …so… …one day when he had gone out of… …the city to a cave… …he had a habit of retreating there… …just for… …withdrawal and relaxation sort of… …and at that time… …he… …sort of heard a voice… …and that voice said… …write the word of God… …and Muhammad was a little… …he said I can’t write… …he said write… …he said I can’t write… …so that was Gabriel… …he was the… …so in the… …in the Abrahamic cosmology… …intermediate between God’s realm… …and… …the human realm are engines… …who act as messengers of God… …so that was the… …angel named Gabriel… …and he… …gave Muhammad… …the revelation of the Quran… …and at that time… …so when we say the Quran was revealed… …Muhammad spoke the words out… …and later on… …others wrote the words out… …so at that time… …Gabriel spoke to him that… …you are only the messenger of God… …so… …there was some time when… …Muhammad faced some self-doubt… …was this a hallucination… …or was this a reality… …and he said that Khadija convinced him that… …actually it is a… …it is a reality… …and then… …one of the things that he started… …talking about was the absolute oneness of God… …that there is only one God… …and no one else should be worshipped… …apart from that God… …and that gave indirect opposition… …to the… …religious as well as the civil administration… …that was there at that time… …in the area of Mecca… …was a holy place called Kaaba… …and in Kaaba there were many deities… …some of them were considered to be the… …now Allah is the name of God… …it is not that Muhammad coined the name Allah… …Allah is the name of God… …which is used in Arabic… …so there were many sort of idols over there… …so some of them were considered to be daughters of Allah… …and there were other gods also… …and… …lot of people from various areas would come there… …to worship those particular idols… …and when Muhammad said that none of these should be worshipped… …except the one true God… …so the local people over there felt threatened… …because that would also disrupt their economy… …there was a lot of religious tourism there… …and that put him in opposition… …and many people when he spoke his revelations… …many people started deriding and persecuting him… …and as this started happening… …he had to over a period of time… …sometimes take security measures to protect his life… …so while he was living in Mecca… …the news about his teaching spread to Medina… …so Medina was another major city… …and from Medina some people came… …some young people came and they were attracted to them… …and they became sort of his first followers outside Mecca… …Mecca had a small following… …so they went to Medina… …and they started propagating over there… …and they got a good amount of success in Medina… …so when they got a good amount of success… …and here in Mecca he was being persecuted… …so at one particular time the religious powers… …they decided that he’s too much of a threat… …and they planned to assassinate him… …so at the same time the people from Medina… …who were his followers they gave him an invitation… …please come there… …so that’s how he fled from Mecca to Medina… …now according to the Islamic legend… …there were many miraculous events… …by which he was saved at that time… …so he went with one of his prominent followers… …Abu Bakr… …who later on became his successor… …so they fled to Medina… …so in 622… …so 12 years he was giving his revelations… …then he fled to Medina… …and then from that point onwards… …his position became gradually strong… …Medina… …so he had some followers… …now there was a problem that… …these people in Mecca were traders… …they were businessmen… …and they had fled… …they did not have any resources to start business… …and most people in Medina were farmers… …so those people who had left Mecca… …they neither had the physical ability… …nor the skill to do farming… …so the only way they could survive… …was at that place by breeding… …so it was… …Medina was on a trade route… …and the supplies… …all the necessities as well as luxuries for Mecca… …would go on the trade route through Medina… …so Mohammed trained his followers… …to go on raids… …to plunder the business people who were going over there… …and to take their possessions… …so this incensed the people at Mecca… …so first… …it was the idea of different religious beliefs… …and now… …financially also they were threatened… …so there were two battles… …one battle was at Badr where… …although they were outnumbered 3 to 1… …then they gained their confidence… …next battle was Uhud where they lost… …and when they lost… …that was a big crisis of faith for his followers… …but at that time Mohammed got a revelation… …that this defeat is a test from Allah… …and then… …gradually he started… …conquering all the neighbouring tribes that were there… …so when Mecca when he gained… …sorry when Medina he gained power… …so at that time there were four Jew tribes over there… …large powerful Jew tribes… …but he was… …he was also influential… …and two of the Jew tribes opposed him… …so Mohammed ordered every single man of them to be slaughtered… …and all the women and children to be taken slaves… …the third tribe fled… …something like that happened… …and the fourth surrendered… …then later on the Meccans… …decided to attack over there in Medina… …and there was a fight in which he lost… …but instead of advancing further… …instead of advancing further… …the Meccans went back… …they thought he is no longer a threat… …here we have defeated him… …so what happened the remaining Jewish tribe… …had negotiated with the Meccans… …to try to regain… …get him out… …so when he came back he turned in vengeance… …and killed all of them also… …so this was the example that… …of killing everybody who opposes… …that is taken by Muslims from Mohammed… …then later on as he was conquering all the other tribes… …he marched to Mecca… …and he was… …the ruler of Mecca at that time felt that… …we cannot fight with these Muslims… …so he voluntarily came and surrendered… …and that is considered to be a great victory in Islamic history… …and if you keep faith in Allah… …then your enemy will come and surrender to you… …if he doesn’t… …then you can resort to arms and kill him… …but then when he came… …he did what he had originally said should be done… …stop all the worship of the idols over there… …so he personally destroyed all the idols… …and then he became the ruler over there… …and from… …although he lived only two years after that… …but by this time he had become very powerful… …and he started sending… …his generals all around… …and they also started conquering various areas… …so in one sense… …the… …I discussed about Christianity… …Christianity did not spread much during Jesus’ time… …he was primarily a teacher… …so it spread primarily because of Paul… …so Paul was an administrator in the Roman Empire before… …and… …later on he used his both administrative diplomatic skills… …along with his… …whatever spiritual knowledge he had… …he combined both… …and then both together they spread it… …so… …in one sense… …Muhammad… …combined the roles… …if you can… …if you can put it that way… …of a Brahmana and a Kshatriya… …so he was a sort of spiritual teacher… …as well as a political administrator… …and we’ll come back to this point a little later… …to analyse this more… …so now there are a lot of terms which they use… …so just as we have the concept of Brahmanas… …they have the concept of… …their learned people who are studied… …studying the Quran… …they’re called the Ulama… …the individual persons called Ulama… …they’re called… …all of them are called Amma… …now Shirk is the word that they use… …for… …associating anything metal with Gowda… …so… …they also use for… …what is duty worship… …they say that to associate any material thing with Gowda… …is to… …violate… …the sanctity of Gowda… …so that’s why there can be no material representation of Gowda… …then they also have a tradition of explaining the Quran… …that is called Tafseer… …and Sharia will come to that a little later… …but… …generally… …the religious book that is originally coming… …in any tradition… …that has to be expanded to… …deal with intricacies and changing realities… …so the law book that was formed is called Sharia… …and we often use the word Namaz… …so Namaz is specifically for the activity of prayer… …the… …the prayer itself is called a Salat… …so now the Quran itself coming to that… …so there are 114 chapters which are called as Surahs… …and the verses which are called are Ayahs… …so Surah Al-Fatiha is the one that they… …recite… …is the first Surah… …and 36 Surahs are recited in time of death… …I’m just giving you a quick overview… …and the Surahs are of different lengths… …some are long, some are short… …so how was the Quran revealed… …that… …when Muhammad would still live a normal life… …he was an administrator, he was… …he was a warrior… …he was a sort of diplomat, politician… …and suddenly… …at any unpredictable time… …the… …Gabriel… …the messenger of God would enter into him… …or would give a message to him… …and then at that time he would tell his followers… …write this down… …and then what he would write down… …that is called as the… …revelation… …of Allah, that is the Quran… …so now their legends are that at one time… …Muhammad was… …going across the desert on a camel… …and when he was going on the camel… …suddenly… …the Quran, the message of the Quran entered into him… …and when it entered into him… …his weight became so heavy… …that the camel couldn’t bear his weight… …and the camel just… …fell on his feet… …and sort of fell on the ground… …because the weight of… …the message of Allah… …Quran is so heavy… …so he spoke this at different times in different places… …and it was written down… …and in fact… …actually different people wrote it down… …later almost 40-50 years… …after he died… …then it was all brought together and made into a book… …so we will… …see about this… …the Muslims consider that… …not one squiggle… …not one word in the Quran has changed… …from the time it was revealed… …and they consider that… …the potency… …the revelation of Allah… …was in Arabic… …and that’s why the revelation has its potency only in Arabic… …and they say translations are not of much use… …and whenever there is a ritual recitation of the Quran to be done… …that ritual recitation is always done in Arabic… …so unlike the… …Abrahamic tradition where the Bible is considered… …to be equally sacred whichever language it is spoken in… …they have this intuitive idea that… …that Quran is the literal revealed word of God… …now as far as the contents of the Quran are concerned… …there are… …these revelations happened at different times… …and some happened in Mecca… …and some happened in Medina… …and… …when these different revelations happened… …at that time his followers would write it down… …but the collection and arrangement of it all happened later… …so in general there is a sort of trend within the Quran… …so there is that famous ayahs which many Muslims quote… …if you go to any interfaith conference… …in religion there shall be no force… …in religion there should be no force… …so this is one of the revelations that is spoken in Mecca… …now if you look at it historically… …chronologically… …the statements of Muhammad in the Quran… …or rather Allah through Muhammad in the Quran… …whatever you want to look at it… …they seem to become more and more hardline… …as this power seems to increase more and more… …so the later on verses… …so the 9.5 verses is called the verse of the sword… …and that says that kill the kafirs wherever you see them… …so wherever you see them kill them… …and this is according to their tradition a later revelation… …and their idea of the later revelation cancels the earlier revelation… …so there is the earlier revelation that… …in religion there shall be no force… …but the later revelation is kill the kafirs wherever you see them… …so within the Quran there is this… …sorry… …so the word kafir is used by them… …to refer to people who are not following the law of God… …they are not the people of God… …so they consider Christians and Jews also to be the followers of the law of God… …but their idea is that… …these revelations were pure when they were given… …but afterwards they were contaminated… …and they have their own idea that… …the Quran is the uncontaminated final word of God… …and to the extent Muslims… …sorry… …Jews and Christians accept the Quran… …to that extent they will be delivered… …and of course they have their own self-centred interpretation of history… …they say that… …Jesus… …there is in Christian tradition the idea of the second coming of Jesus… …that Jesus will come again in the future… …so they say that Jesus will come again in the future… …and at that time… …he will be a follower of Mohammed… …and he will chastise all the Christians who have not accepted the authority of Mohammed… …so that is the way they interpret it… …but as a… …so after he wrote the whole thing… …now there are some incidents which are a little… …as I said there are two possibilities… …if we look at the Quran itself… …there are a significant number of verses… …which… …talk about… …severe punishment of all the Kafirs… …in hell for eternity… …as well as equally strong injunctions for punishing them… …if… …they don’t accept… …Allah and Mohammed… …so… …now… …Iraq was written a book about this… …so… …here in Rajarapal Quran… …and there he tries to bring out the… …similarities between… …the Quran’s teachings… …as well as the… …Bhakti teachings… …so now one of the points he says is that… …there are at least two incidents… …now apart from the Quran… …the life of Mohammed… …is given in books called as Hadiths… …so I’ll just come to that… …yeah… …so now what are the Hadiths… …it is also a matter of debate… …that means the Sunnis consider some books to be Hadiths… …the Shias consider the others to be Hadiths… …so Shahi-e-Bukhari, Shahi-e-Muslim… …all these are considered Sunni Hadiths… …and the Shias consider others to be Hadiths… …they are the four books… …so anyway… …in the… …Hadiths… …there are incidents from the life of Mohammed which are given… …and one of the incidents is that… …he speaks something… …and then after he speaks it… …he says this is a revelation… …write it down… …he writes it down… …and then after he comes out he says… …that was not a revelation from Allah… …that was a devil speaking… …cancel it out… …as a devil speaking cancel it out… …so… …so it is possible… …that these hardline verses that are there… …they may not be the revelation of Allah… …sorry… …yeah… …Maha… …Maha… …okay… …I’ll come to that part a little later… …Maha… …okay… …so… …so just… …I’ll come back to the content of the Quran once again… …let’s complete the history part… …so now what happened was… …we’ll talk about the Shia Sunni division… …so after Mohammed died in 632… …the first Khalif was Abu Bakr… …and then after that was… …second was Umar… …Umar Qataba… …third was Uthman… …now Uthman was… …most of these Khalifs they died very violent deaths… …so Uthman was murdered while he was… …actually praying in the mosque… …and that sent shockwaves everywhere… …so Ali was one of the closest followers of Mohammed… …he was the husband of Fatima… …who was the wife of… …who was the daughter of Mohammed… …so incidentally… …he married Khadija… …Khadija died before he came back to Mecca… …so after that he married many wives… …and he had as many as 9 wives… …and one of his wives was very young… …almost like… …he married her… …some people say when she was 6… …some people say when she was 10… …and he cohabited with her when she was 11, 12… …or something like that… …so his life was… …if you contrast with Jesus’ life… …Jesus was a celibate… …his life was quite different… …but… …he was the son-in-law of Mohammed… …the husband of his daughter Fatima… …and he was also quite close… …now some of the Muslims felt that… …Mohammed wanted Ali to be his successor… …but… …while the last rites of Mohammed Ali performed… …Abu Bakr took the power… …and Ali was a sort of tolerant person… …now we have some of Ali’s writings also… …and Ali’s writings seem to be… …a little more broad-minded… …now… …three colonists fell off… …they died… …then Ali came to power… …so at that time what had happened was… …Islam had spread quite rapidly… …and there was a powerful Umayyad dynasty… …so there were many dynasties… …which were like the rulers… …Mughal was one dynasty which came to India… …there was Abbasid dynasty… …the first Islamic ruler dynasty was Umayyad… …and many Muslims felt… …that this Umayyad dynasty… …so Mawia was one of their rulers at that time… …he had actually opposed Mohammed in the early days… …and he had even persecuted Muslims… …so many of the Muslims felt opposed to him… …although he later converted to Islam… …and surrendered to Mohammed… …so basically what happened was… …this Mawia and Ali… …Ali became the Kale… …now Kale was like the ruler of Islam at that time… …there was a battle between the two of them… …and while the battle was going on… …various things happened… …and Ali was a peace-loving person… …so Ali withdrew the battle… …some of Ali’s followers felt that… …no, this Mawia is against God… …so you cannot withdraw against him… …you have to fight against him… …and a fight broke between Ali’s people only… …and one of Ali’s followers killed him… …so when he killed him… …after that… …so the followers of Ali are called as Shias… …other Muslims are called as Sunnis… …so then the Shias… …they felt that we need a successor… …so Ali’s son was Hussain… …so he was quite a powerful person… …so they decided to have him as the king… …and they asked him to march… …to the capital of the Sumayya dynasty… …to attack Mawia… …and they said we will come and assist you… …and when they were on the battlefield… …these followers of Shia didn’t come to assist him… …so there was the full army of the king… …and this few people… …Ali and Hussain over there… …and all of them were killed… …and Hussain was like the grandson of Muhammad… …so according to their story… …the soldiers… …they were also Muslims… …and they hesitated when they were about to kill… …the grandson of Muhammad… …but then finally they killed him… …under the instruction of their commander… …and this incident… …wrecked the hearts of the Shias very badly… …and even today in Muslim countries… …or even in India sometimes you will see that… …they celebrate… …or commemorate… …not celebrate… …they commemorate this incident… …of the murder of Hussain… …in a very tragic way… …they often have their whips… …with which they beat themselves… …and they torture themselves… …so the Shias do this… …so their idea is… …they are expressing their regret and repentance… …that they did not go to assist Hussain at that time… …but they felt that… …this to the Shias… …this proved clearly… …that these Umayyads… …could attack and kill the grandson of Muhammad… …that made them feel that these people… …are not the followers of Muhammad at all… …and that split them apart totally… …at that particular time… …so even now there are a lot of violent fights… …which go on between… …these two Muslim categories… …so… …Maximum Muslims… …Shias are relatively small… …so Shias are a little more… …not more… …they do… …they sort of do the drama of that also… …they have the drama… …and they show the whole thing… …it’s quite brutal… …how he was killed… …but… …this as I said… …split the two apart very severely… …now… …Islam started spreading… …eastwards also… …so in around 1000… …in the century… …11th century was the first Muslim attacker… …who came to India… …and he conquered a small part… …but overall he couldn’t penetrate… …from the 12th, 13th century onwards… …the dynasties started coming in… …so Ibrahim, Lodhi and all of them… …were coming from that time onwards… …of course Ibrahim Lodhi was much later… …but from that time they started coming onwards… …so now Muslims… …they did not come to India from one place only… …there are Muslims in… …Turkey they were there… …some Muslims were in Arabia… …some Muslims were there… …of course in India… …almost extended to Afghanistan… …so different Muslims came from different parts of the world… …especially different parts of… …that is north and north-east of… …north-west of India… …so… …quite sometimes in Indian history… …you see there are battles for the position of India… …among Muslims itself… …because… …the… …Muslims took rule… …now historically speaking… …the… …the political expansion of Muslims is quite dramatic… …because generally speaking… …whenever they would fight… …they would always be lesser in number than their opponents… …because they are going to attack… …so the attacking army is never as big as the… …army of the soldiers which are there… …because the Urdu hero is there… …but for various reasons… …now there are occasions… …where Muhammad also used… …in one sense… …some kind of deceit… …that means he said… …okay we’ll declare a treaty… …and when the treaty is declared… …then he will go and attack… …and their idea is that… …for the sake of Allah… …everything is fair… …everything is fair… …if you are promoting the cause of Allah… …so now… …the history of India… …is very… …is very polarised… …in the sense of what actually happened… …what has happened unfortunately is… …that most Hindus… …have been highly material minded… …and they have gone into earning professions… …like engineering, medicine… …or other career professions… …and the study of their own tradition… …whether it be religion or history… …this they have not done at all… …so most of the people who have done it… …in India are the Marxists… …and the Marxists have reinterpreted… …the whole history of India… …as… …the history of class struggle… …between the lower caste and the higher caste… …and they feel… …and their interpretation of history is that… …when Islam came to India… …Islam freed India from the curse of the caste system… …so… …with their version of the history that we get… …the… …the… …attacks on the Hindu culture that happened… …they are very downplayed… …they are very downplayed… …now of course… …in general… …the… …as I said… …because… …Muslims consider Muhammad to be the ideal human being… …and whatever he has done… …they also follow… …so their idea is that… …if any place we conquer… …then just as Muhammad bashed the idols over there… …we have to bash the idols… …so the Marxist historians… …try to say that actually… …the temples that were there… …they were very wealthy places… …and they were also… …they said even the Brahmanas were… …the priests over there were also interested… …were in… …politics… …so… …actually the attack on the temples was more for economical and political purposes… …than for religious purposes… …that’s how they try to explain it away and minimise it… …but the fact is… …that not only did they loot the temples… …not only did they… …at times kill the Brahmins… …but they would also take the idols and specifically desecrate them… …they would use the idols as stepping stones for building mosques… …so the idea is that… …your god is a false god… …we step on your god to go and worship our god… …so all this is historically documented… …and all this is historically documented… …by Islamic historians themselves… …that means… …when a king… …when a Muslim king would conquer a place… …the idea would be… …what all has he accomplished… …so these are considered to be very glorious historical accomplishments… …that is true… …now… …if we look at… …all this from our perspective… …Shila Prabhupada… …we’ll look at Shila Prabhupada… …then we’ll go backwards… …Bhaktislaan Swethakur… …although Bengal was… …a place where Muslims were also there… …Bhaktislaan Swethakur personally did not interact much with Muslims… …in Jaiva Dharma with respect to Bhaktivinod Thakur… …there is a conversation in Jaiva Dharma… …Jaiva Dharma is basically a novel… …and… …there he distributes a conversation between… …between some Muslim priests… …and… …Vaishnavas… …Vaishnavas… …and there is a chapter on Nitya Varsha… …where he talks about it… …and he philosophically explains the rationale of Nitya Varsha… …but there have been not many interactions… …at an intellectual or philosophical level between… …Gaudiya Vaishnavas and Muslims… …we’ll go back to Chaitanya Mahapur a little later… …but… …with respect to Shila Prabhupada… …Shila Prabhupada’s statements about Islam… …are… …almost overwhelmingly positive… …Shila Prabhupada does not deny the fact that Muslims desecrated the temples… …and when Chaitanya Mahapur’s purports do come up he talks about it… …but in general when Shila Prabhupada talks about Islam… …he talks about it in a very positive tone… …he says that… …just as Muslims… …children learn the Quran as a right childhood… …we should also learn the Quran… …Hindu children should also learn the Quran… …he says Muslims as soon as they get some money they build a mosque… …so Hindus should also build temples like that… …and also… …one time Shila Prabhupada was in Iran… …so at that time… …someone Muslim boy came and talked with him… …and then they went away… …and in the… …background… …the Salat started… …the Muslim prayer started being recited… …and immediately Prabhupada closed his eyes… …folded his hands… …and sort of went into a trance… …and in a closed complete prayer he heard… …and the devotees around him immediately taken aback… …and then… …he opened his eyes and Prabhupada said… …wasn’t that beautiful… …these devotees are really disturbed… …they said Prabhupada… …wouldn’t it be better if they chant Hare Krishna instead… …so Prabhupada almost looked forward… …and Prabhupada said… …why are you making me sectarian… …they are glorifying God in their way… …we are glorifying God in our own way… …so… …the thing is… …I started by discussing earlier… …in the first class I mentioned about our Pramanas… …and our primary Pramana is Guru Sadhu Shastra… …and Aithi here… …Itihas is secondary Pramana… …and here when we study Islam… …you know we get a radically different picture… …of Islam from Aithi here… …from the historical record… …and from Guru Sadhu Shastra… …so of course… …as I said… …our Guru Sadhu Shastra did not deny… …that there was Vandalism… …there was the creation of the Deities… …but… …they don’t consider it as something directly against Islam… …so in general… …we need to give a higher authority… …to the words of Guru Sadhu Shastra… …than to the historical record… …so… …how do we reconcile it… …I have talked this with several Vaishnavas… …senior devotees… …and… …Shri Prabhupada has given us a position… …and Shri Prabhupada refers to Mohammed also… …quite respectfully as Hazrat Mohammed… …now… …in general… …in Islam… …two things have happened… …as I said… …there was Mohammed played the role of both… …a Brahmin and a Kshatriya… …he was a spiritual teacher… …as well as a political administrator… …and… …there are some Hindus… …who consider Islam to not be a religion at all… …and… …there are some Hindus who say that… …actually Mohammed is… …an evil person… …and some Hindus feel that… …Islam is not a bona fide religion… …but… …Shri Prabhupada doesn’t refer to it like that… …so how it has happened is… …there was this Brahminical role which he played… …and there was a Kshatriya role that he played… …so historically speaking… …most of his successors… …have focused on playing the Kshatriya role… …if you look at the Caliphs… …and if you look at the subsequent rulers… …now they were not exactly… …very spiritually advanced… …they did not write any… …they did not give any… …philosophical writings… …so to a large extent what happened was… …the Ulama was there… …there’s a lot of communities there… …that never had much power… …over… …the human world… …so the main power was with their kings… …so what happened in the… …and another thing that happens is… …as I said in all the Abrahamic religions… …there is no sadhana by which… …a person can get higher taste… …they don’t have this systematic spiritual practise… …by which they can get higher taste… …so because of these two factors… …because of the religion being… …primarily controlled by Kshatriyas… …and because of there being no… …facility to get a higher taste… …that this religion… …which originally… …was a search for God… …became transformed… …into a search for political power… …and the acquirement of political power… …started being seen… …as… …the blessing of God… …and as the proof of the success of that religion… …so… …now… …there were some Muslims… …who felt that… …the… …that the Muslim community is becoming too materialistic… …and they should not get mixed with materialistic… …there are some Ulemas… …some… …of the learned community were there… …but… …and they have always been writing literature… …which is more about the other world… …but they have never… …gained much prominent power… …in the Vedic tradition… …the Brahmanas had significant influence over Kshatriyas… …that was rarely the case in Islamic history… …and there were some others… …Sufis… …Sufis… …are not another sect like Shias and Sunnis… …some Shias are also Sufis… …some Sunnis are also Sufis… …so Sufis… …were people who… …who focused on having… …the purpose of life… …is to experience a relationship with Allah… …now the Muslims have a little peculiar belief… …they have the idea… …the Vaishnava understanding is God is a person… …and God has a form… …the Mayavadi idea is God is not a person… …and God does not have a form… …the Muslim idea is… …God is a person… …but he does not have a form… …God is a person… …but he does not have a form… …so of course… …this is difficult to logically or scripturally sustain… …because logically how can you be a person… …if you don’t have a form… …personality does not have a form… …but more importantly scripturally… …there are verses… …which talk about… …the face of Allah… …eyes of Allah… …the hands of Allah… …they talk about all these things… …but somehow because of… …Muhammad’s strong condemnation of associating… …anything material with Allah… …even in the Islamic mosques… …the only decorations that are allowed… …are geometrical and floral decorations… …you cannot have any animals… …you cannot have any human beings… …even the portrayal of Muhammad is not allowed… …not to speak of anybody else… …so… …because of this… …because of… …because the religion became primarily… …a search for political power… …and the Sufis… …they were more of otherworldly… …so they had their own… …versions of bhajans and kirtans… …and they would sing the glories of Allah… …we have in Radha and Maa’s journey home book… …that boy was singing… …the glories of God… …so there have been sincere people like that… …but these people were never in power… …nor did they have much influence… …over those who were in power… …in fact many of the Sufis… …were persecuted… …some of the Sufis were even executed… …so they had to suffer a lot… …at the hands of both the Shias and the Sufis… …because they would write their songs… …where they would… …they would talk about Allah… …in a very intimate way… …and this was considered a blasphemy… …by them… …of course it’s a detailed issue… …but the point here is that… …the avenue for direct experience of God… …is very less… …of course Muslims are strict about doing their… …prayers five times a day… …but apart from that… …the overall success of the religion… …was seen more in material terms… …than spiritual terms… …now if we look at the Quran itself… …its state… …its promises for the believers… …are also quite materialistic… …there are… …according to the Quran there are seven… …the heaven or the higher world… …is called a Jannat… …so there are seven Jannats… …and above the seven Jannats… …is the throne of Allah… …and that is where Allah is… …so… …this roughly correlates… …with our seven planetary systems… …and beyond that… …the spiritual world… …but they have the idea that… …in these seven Jannats… …is where people will reside… …where the believers will go and reside… …and there are… …perfused descriptions of materialistic pleasures… …that are available… …so there are beautiful angels… …and… …lots of… …drinks and honey… …and this and that… …lots of food and drinks are… …material enjoyment is all… …perfusely available… …so to some extent… …again with qualifications… …this is like Karmakand… …and in Karmakand… …the idea of heavens are there… …where a person goes and enjoys… …so… …actually speaking… …we may think that… …if somebody believes in the next life… …then… …that will make a person more spiritual… …that is not necessary… …now there is a… …there is the word… …number one atheist… …he is Richard Dawkins… …he says that… …religion is the… …only belief system… …that can… …make people… …into suicide bombers… …because it teaches them the dangerous nonsense… …that life doesn’t end with death… …so it teaches them the dangerous nonsense… …that life doesn’t end with death… …so no sane man… …would ever become a suicide bomber… …if he thought life is going to end with death… …but the idea… …the belief that… …now most of the Muslims… …in Arabia… …they have tremendous wealth… …because of oil… …but Pakistan and Afghanistan are the places… …from which most terrorists are included… …because there is no oil over there… …there is a lot of poverty over there… …so for these people… …the promises of materialistic pleasure… …in the next life… …are the only hope ahead… …and that is the only world view that they are taught… …and that’s why they think… …yes… …I am not getting anything in this life… …now of course… …there is… …there is debate over… …the interpretation of this verse… …but… …as far as the Jihadis are concerned… …they are taught that… …every one of you will have… …73 virgins to enjoy with for all of eternity… …and even their… …that virgin’s beauty is also described over there… …so what happens by this is… …that… …they feel quite reckless… …so the difference between the Vedic understanding… …and the… …Quranic understanding is that… …the point that… …the Bhagwat that he says… …not only is there a next life… …but the self is non-material… …this idea is not there in the Abrahamic tradition at all… …they may have the idea of a soul… …but somehow the soul is considered material… …and the pleasures are also promised material… …so what happens is… …that’s the fundamental difference… …it’s not that… …belief in next life is dangerous… …but what is dangerous is… …what is one’s conception of happiness… …if one’s conception of happiness is materialistic… …then we have this world immaterialism… …and we have next world immaterialism… …so one may follow morality in this world… …so that one can enjoy in the next world… …so… …that’s why… …to a large extent today… …there are Islamic terrorists… …and they are ready to lay down their lives… …and they consider that they are following Mohammed… …in… …waging jihad against… …the kafirs… …those who don’t believe in God… …in their God… …so apart from that… …if you see basically… …all human beings are similar… …and even Muslims… …also undergo… …adhyatmikadhi, bhutikadhi in Ganesh… …they also undergo… …janmukh, tijragadhi… …they also have to go through… …the struggles for their lives… …so what has happened is… …that in the Islamic community… …the… …the… …tulma… …their maulwa… …small ways… …their priesthood… …has a lot of influence… …in shaping the worldview of the people… …and to the extent they have that influence… …to that extent people become… …influenced in a fanatical… …but it’s not that every Muslim is evil… …because ultimately all of them are souls… …all of them are… …parts of Krishna only… …but… …we all get influenced by the… …kind of people we live with… …and by the kind of teachings we get… …so there is a lot of talk… …in Muhammad… …in Muhammad’s Quran… …about Allah’s love… …so Muslims will quote that… …actually… …there is more talk about Allah’s love… …than it is about say… …war… …or killing others… …that is true… …but that all the verses of Allah’s love… …are for Muslims… …there is no question of Allah loving… …anyone who is not a Muslim… …so the idea… …is that… …this sort of sectarian division… …is very strong… …and there may be some verses… …which talk about leave the other… …non-believers to themselves… …but for political purposes… …those are not very expedient verses… …so because the Muslim… …Islam has become largely a religion… …that has become a search for political power… …those verses which justify… …political violence against other religions… …and other cultures… …they are touted quite aggressively… …within their traditions… …so now going forward… …so this I think… …I don’t have to go into this… …they have these five pillars… …they have the daily prayer five times… …then… …in the prayer they have the shahadah… …they read out… …their statement of faith… …then they have the ritual fast… …Ramdan which they do… …then giving charity is one of their principles… …and then Hajj is going to pilgrimage… …oh sorry… …we have to go behind now… …so… …I’ll make two more points… …before we finish… …so in the Chaitanya Chaitanya Amrit… …yeah… …I’ll just come to that… …Guru Sadhu Shastra… …I’ll just come to that now… …yeah… …so… …the very revealing section… …in the Chaitanya Chaitanya Amrit… …in chapter 16 and 17… …of Mahamandir Da Vinna… …where Chaitanya Mahaprabhu meets with the Qazi… …now we talk only about the dramatic part of the pastime… …okay… …so… …so here… …this is a very heavy statement… …and often we don’t talk about it… …so we know what happens is… …Chaitanya Mahaprabhu comes and has a sermon… …with the women… …the Qazi goes and hides… …and then they have a debate… …so Qazi says… …you also have go… …go make the Ayodhya… …and Chaitanya Mahaprabhu says… …that is very exceptional… …and then… …what does he say… …since you Muslims cannot… …bring killed cows back to life… …you are responsible for killing them… …therefore you are going to hell… …there is no way for you to deliver this… …a cow killer is a condemn… …then the next verse says… …there are many mistakes and illusions in your scriptures… …so logically Mahaprabhu is speaking… …then Raghupai at the west… …not knowing the essence of knowledge… …gave orders that were against reason and argument… …not knowing the essence of knowledge… …gave orders that were against reason and argument… …so the one who does the scriptures… …will be like a lion… …so the one who does the scriptures… …he is using the plural… …not singular… …that means not his normal life… …but people who… …did something up to him… …so Qazi was stunned by this… …and then… …so then… …what is Chaitanya Mahaprabhu saying… …is that… …Raghupai is saying that… …similarly from a scientific point of view… …the answer you want… …has to be a dissent for the Christians… …have changed… …shastra cannot change… …shastra cannot… …then Qazi says… …what you have said is all true… …our scriptures have developed recently… …they are certainly not logical and cosmical… …the shastras and the yavanas of meat eaters… …are not eternal scriptures… …they are not eternal scriptures… …they have been fashioned recently… …and sometimes they contradict one another… …the scriptures of the yavanas are three… …the old testament… …the new testament and the koran… …their compilation has a history… …they are not eternal like Vedic knowledge… …therefore although they have their… …archaeological reasonings… …they are not very sound and transcendental… …and Raghupai is saying the same thing… …in the next paragraph… …again he says… …whereas the scriptures of the yavanas… …namely the old testament… …new testament and koran… …and they cannot properly answer… …impositive followers… …naturally those advanced in anthropology… …philosophy… …have lost faith in such scriptures… …I know that our scriptures are full of… …imagination, mistake and ideas… …yet because I am a Muslim… …I accept them for the sake of my community… …despite their insubstantial support… …so his reasoning are not very sound… …so Shri Raghupai makes this point… …which he amplified about Chaitanya Mahaprabhu… …he said… …so… …now we also know there were two other… …interactions Chaitanya Mahaprabhu with the… …Muslims… …but we don’t have any philosophical… …discussion… …we have the… …Hijri Khan and his conversation… …and there was also at the border… …Chaitanya Mahaprabhu went from… …Pratapradara’s kingdom to Bengal again… …there was a Muslim who was also converted… …but there is not much philosophical… …discussion that is given… …over there… …there is a little bit over there… …little bit over here… …but Shri Raghupai and Chaitanya Mahaprabhu… …are anemones… …so our broad understanding… …I’ll summarise… …that first point is… …it is a way to God… …Islam is a way to God… …and… …because the scriptures are not eternal… …Islam is a way to God… …Islam is a way to God… …so because the scriptures are not eternal… …and because there seem to be as I said… …from the historical point of view… …some interpolations… …no Muslim will accept that… …but there seem to be some interpolations… …so there is much… …which is… …not proper over there… …so our standard for understanding is… …Shrimad Bhagavatam is Amal Purana… …and… …to whatever extent… …the teachings of any book agree with it… …we accept it… …to the extent they disagree… …we say that they are not valid… …so there is much in the Quran… …which is talking about… …piety and devotion to God… …and service to God… …and surrender to His will… …all that is fine… …we accept that… …and beyond that… …whatever is talking about intolerance… …and violence and other things… …we don’t accept that… …and… …Shri Radha Gopal sets the example… …of how we should be… …in generation… …Shri Radha Gopal did not… …preach much to Muslims… …or Muslim countries… …because there is not much opportunity… …Muslims don’t allow us to preach much… …and Shri Radha Gopal basically… …did not… …he appreciated whatever is good… …we can learn from them… …their adherence to the culture… …and religious forms… …and he focused on spreading Krishna Consciousness… …so in general… …people are looking for higher taste… …and if they get Krishna’s message… …then… …we have… …especially in the CIS countries… …men and people… …otherwise you have heard a beautiful article… …about a Muslim voice now… …so… …especially in those countries… …there are many Muslims… …who have become devotees… …and… …rather than condemning the religion per se… …Rani said that yes… …there are many spiritualists over there… …and there are people who have taken that religion… …for the spiritual path… …but if they get connected with Krishna Consciousness… …then we can help in… …fulfilling their spiritual journey… …but along with that… …we also recognise that… …Islam as it exists today… …with the influence of Jihadis… …is a danger for us… …and we have to do the needful… …whatever is required for… …protecting our temple… …protecting our devotees… …and we cannot imagine… …that everything is okay… …yeah just… …I’ll just complete this point… …so the point I’m making here is this… …that… …some people… …just don’t like to talk about… …the dark side of Islam… …as I said the Hindu… …many Indian historians are like that… …and they say… …so when India became independent… …this was quite unfortunate… …see Hinduism does not have much history of violence… …but there were two incidents… …which have given Hinduism a bad name… …and the first was… …the assassination of… …Gandhi… …by a Hindu Brahmin… …so that… …although… …all that was done by… …Muslims… …throughout their history in India… …killing so many Hindus… …and destroying so many temples… …but the idea in the western eyes became… …that if you Hindus… …can kill your own leader… …the apostle of peace… …how can you be a peaceful religion… …so especially at that time… …after the second world war had taken place… …and so many people had been killed… …the desire for peace was very very strong… …and because of that… …Gandhi had been… …almost glamorised… …although he… …he… …was not… …people had objections to the ways he did things… …but still he was glamorised… …and his assassination… …created the perception that Hinduism was also a violent religion… …and similarly the destruction of the Babri Masjid also… …both of these got very international… …coverage… …and because of that the idea is that Hinduism is also… …as violent like any other religions… …although if you look at the history… …that is not true… …and at least ideologically point of view… …Hinduism… …allows other religions to exist… …there is no place… …where… …in any Hindu scripture you find… …kill everybody else… …there’s nothing like that at all… …but… …unfortunately portrayed… …so as devotees… …Shri Prabhupada was very careful… …that we don’t get… …caught up in the Hindu-Muslim conflicts… …and the polarisation that happens because of that… …so Shri Prabhupada is Krishna conscious transcendental… …and he saw whatever was good in… …in… …in Islam and he appreciated that… …and he continued propagating Krishna consciousness… …what was the point I was making… …yeah… …so… …devotees… …we… …there’s no point in… …too… …pending too much time in debating with Muslims… …why… …two reasons… …first reason is that… …especially nowadays… …Muslims are becoming quite intellectually arrogant… …and they have their own idea of interpreting history… …and getting into a debate… …because most of those people who have been influenced… …very deeply… …it is very difficult to change them… …Pruthu Prabhu was a person who was… …preaching to Christians quite a bit… …so he told me that… …you know you might get more results by preaching to a wall… …than by preaching to a hardline Christian… …because they are completely convinced that Jesus is the only way… …so… …especially if we find that somebody… …if some Muslim is having a genuine question… …that’s a different issue… …but if some Muslim is out on a missionary’s hill to preach… …there is no use trying to… …make that person see sense… …because that person is not interested in seeing sense… …that person is interested only in proving his superiority… …therefore we have to simply waste time… …and even if we debate and defeat them… …what is happening is we are going to provoke… …provoke people… …and we are going to make them angry… …and as of now… …ISKCON does not have a Kshatriya maker… …so as of now we are Brahmanas… …and we have to take a Brahminical role… …and… …if we want to awaken the Hindu society… …so that… …if there is an Islamic threat that needs to be countered… …that may have to be done… …but we cannot take a Kshatriya role right now… …in our historical stage of our movement… …we have a primary Brahminical movement… …so as Brahmanas… …our primary preaching target… …should be to awaken the Kshatriyas… …if we take up the role of… …if we take up the role of… …becoming Kshatriyas and trying to… …have conflicts and fights… …then our vision will get lost… …and that’s why… …what Srila Prabhupada has given as a precedent is very good… …we focus on preaching Krishna Consciousness… …and we do need to preach vigorously… …because… …there are other religions which are converting people… …and once people become converted… …they become very hostile… …so if we can reach out to them before… …and give them Krishna Consciousness… …they will become attractive… …so to some extent our discussion of the other religions… …is primarily for this purpose of… …increasing our zeal for preaching… …any comments, corrections for Joy too? …historical mistakes… …so… …Mohammad’s life as a Kshatriya… …is more complicated than historical… …and Guru Saraswati has to be put in… …Srila Prabhupada… …not just Himalayas… …Maharajas… …Ramayana… …now… …where does Bhavishya Purana come in… …Guru Saraswati has to be put in… …the Purana of Hindu History… Okay, good question… …so where does Bhavishya Purana come in? Now Srila Prabhupada has asked this question once… …not about Mohammed… …but… …Kamala Krishnamurthy and Nagarjuna had a conversation… …they asked Prabhupada… …Prabhupada in the… …Bhavishya Purana had said that… …Jesus is predicted… …so Prabhupada says everything there is perfect… …and somehow after that the conversation… …doesn’t go forward… …now if you look at that conversation… …Srila Prabhupada… …generally did not talk much about… …interpolation of scriptures… …that means this verse might have been added… …this verse might have been added… …as it is not there… …Prabhupada did not get into that zone… …Bhakti Sanskrit also did that critical scholarship… …and he… …published some critical editions of… …Chetan Chetan, Amaravati and others… …some of his disciples did that… …but Srila Prabhupada to a large extent was… …at a… …spiritual emergency at a short time… …so he did not get into that zone much… …now if you look at the contents of what… …Bhavishya Purana says… …now Mohammed is portrayed in quite a… …negative way over there… …of course some Islamic teachers might… …try to interpret it in a positive way… …but if you look at the literal translation… …there are two incidents… …one is… …where Mohammed is talked about as… …the reincarnation of a demon… …and that is quite… …Mohammed is talked about as… …the reincarnation of a demon… …Tripurasa… …and… …another place… …he is talked about… …so it is King Bhoja and… …along with his minister Kalidas… …they have gone towards… …the west… …and they are worshipping Shiva over there… …and as they are worshipping the Shiva Linga… …so Mohammed is called as a… …so the… …he is some sort of… …non-human being… …he is… …you can call it a… …angelic being or a… …ghostly being or whatever… …that is how he is portrayed over there… …he comes… …so the actual verses say that… …he is… …Maharaj Bhoja is worshipping Shiva Linga… …but the way these Muslims interpret is… …that when Mohammed comes over there… …Maharaj Bhoja starts worshipping him… …and when he is worshipping him… …so Mohammed comes and starts casting a spell… …on… …King Bhoja… …at that time Kalidas is a Brahmin and he says… …what are you doing, stop it… …and he gets Mohammed of the… …of the… …sorry, he gets… …the spell of King Bhoja… …and then Lord Shiva appears and Lord Shiva tells him… …that you go back… …this area I have given to the Mlekshas… …they will rule over here… …there is no need for you to come over here… …and… …so now what these translators interpreted is… …that Mohammed says… …you go and I will come and I will future… …I will civilise your kingdom… …afterward… …it’s a complete distortion for whatever it is… …but anyway… …so the content… …so as I said… …Prabhupada has given us his position on… …on… …Mohammed… …now if you look at what Bhuvishya Purana says… …that radically contradicts… …the position that Prabhupada has given us… …so therefore… …although Puranas in general… …are considered Smriti… …they are not… …Idea is a lower Pranam than Smriti… …Smriti is also called as… …as a… …it’s a part of Shruti… …not Shruti… …it’s a part of Shabda… …so… …but Bhuvishya Purana is not a Purana… …that our Acharyas have quoted too much… …so we consider a couple of occasions… …in Satsangar Babas… …in Vedayam… …in Govindan Ashram… …Baldev Devashankar doesn’t quote it much… …although he quotes a lot in the Upanishads… …so… …if we look at… …what the content is… …that seems to contradict Prabhupada’s position… …and therefore… …it is safe to say that… …that is… …not our stand… …now we don’t have to go out of our way… …to argue that it’s an interpolation… …that is not our stand… …so… …yes, it may be interpolation… …it may not be… …it’s likely that it is… …because in the same Pratisarga Parva… …where Mohammed is talking about… …Jesus is talking about… …Queen Victoria is also talking about over there… …so it’s likely that it’s an interpolation… …okay… …yes… …yes, go… …you can speak loud… …yes… …okay… …was it… …okay… …was it good or bad… …see, one thing is… …that… …the sense of morality changes over a period of time… …and if you… …if you try to examine history from… …our moral prism… …like I mentioned in the first class… …that… …say… …when Krishna killed… …the Arvas of Jarasandh so many times… …now there is no historical evidence that… …all the people who came with him were demonic… …we can infer because they were on a demonic side… …so is there a demonic… …but if you want to look at it from a non-believer’s perspective… …we can say Krishna killed so many people… …and there were no peace negotiations… …we say that there was so much peace negotiations over the Mahabharata war… …but where was there peace negotiation over here… …so, the point here is that… …if we look from our moral prism… …towards history… …we’ll always find things which have to be fought in… …and… …in general in warfare… …it’s not always that all moral principles are followed… …so if you look at the Kshatriya codes… …that are there… …even in the Bhagavatam… …from today’s moral perspective… …the whole idea… …you know… …of people killing each other just to win a woman… …this way more people get killed… …this is… …why do so much… …isn’t it… …it’s just a part of the culture at that time… …so people were not so much afraid of death… …because… …they understood that there is a next life… …but if you look at it… …look at it from that perspective… …now king is getting killed just to… …win a princess… …what is the big deal about that… …so it’s best not to… …look at history from our moral perspective… …so yes… …Muhammad killed so many people over there… …and that is something which even the Muslim historians don’t deny… …so we understand that those were political exigencies were involved over there… …and because of that he was killed… …he had to kill those people… …so generally speaking… …the way Kshatriyas act… …even in the Mahabharata they don’t always follow the moral codes… …although the moral codes are there… …that was 5000 years ago… …this is only 1500 years ago… …so Kali Yuga has degraded much more… …but the point is that… …now why he took both codes… …because that was what was required over there… …if you look at it from a positive perspective… …at that time there was a lot of… …a lot of immorality and disorder… …and… …he was there in that community… …and when they all became Muslims… …from a social point of view… …he imposed certain rules… …but there was social reform… …there was some order that came up… …there was some order of protection and order that came up… …even from a material, political or moral perspective… …now whether we agree with the details of those moral perspectives is different… …but the point is… …that came about… …so what Prabhupada has told us is our position… …that we don’t want the details of the scripture… …we don’t want the details of the lies of Muhammad… …we are not saying everything there is perfect… …all that we are saying is yes… …that was also an attempt to raise God Consciousness… …and to the extent that it was an attempt to raise God Consciousness… …we accept that… …okay… …thank you… …yeah, motive was to reform… …see when it comes to political wars… …even if you look at Second World War… …it’s quite brutal… …so why I spoke this is not to say that Muhammad is bad… …but just to say that… …the violence that Muslims do today… …has historical precedence in Muslims life… …in Muhammad’s life itself… …okay… …okay… …thank you very much…