Technocentric World – Paradise or Hell?

Disclaimer: This transcript was generated using AI and may contain occasional errors or inaccuracies.

Summary

While science and technology have drastically transformed human life, modern society faces unprecedented levels of stress, anxiety, and ecological crisis. This session explores how a disconnect from spiritual wisdom leaves humanity vulnerable to the unchecked exploitation of lower human desires.

• The Illusion of Progress: Although technological advancements have brought physical comforts and higher speeds, they have stripped away basic life necessities like clean air, pure water, and peace of mind.

• Technology as a Servant of Lower Desires: Modern media and digital tech often trigger fundamental human weaknesses—lust, anger, and greed (the “LAG” anathemas)—accelerating destructive behaviors rather than solving deep-rooted psychological issues.

• The Cycle of Modern Stupidity (WWS): Modern techno-centric life often locks individuals into a exhausting loop of Work, Watch (consuming advertising and media), and Shop, fueling perpetual consumerism and financial debt.

• Ecological and Health Crises: Unchecked industrialization, mass production, and pollution have severely damaged global ecosystems, threatening natural resources and contributing to rising lifestyle and mental health disorders.

• Ancient Wisdom vs. Modern Science: Traditional Vedic systems integrated technological and mathematical knowledge (such as geometry, algebra, and the numerical system of zero) with a spiritual framework, keeping human purpose balanced.

• Rebalancing Through Spirituality: Science and technology are powerful tools, but without a moral and spiritual compass, they risk becoming a curse rather than a blessing to humanity.

Full Transcription

So, a quick recap of what we discussed yesterday in the session on Science and Spirituality. We discussed about the historical perspective of how Science and Spirituality got divorced, how pre-Muslim there was heism, post-Muslim, pre-Aryan, there was heism.
God is the creator but not the controller, like a clock and a taxi driver who has no control. So, Science and Spirituality are two-faceted things. That if there are fields of… So, we discussed how… of happening.
Cannot claim to be… So, the mistake is to think that Science is itself describing… all reality… or that the scientific world clearly… clearly… all these are similar. So… when these are not explainable as science, then you have to understand… So, now, to say that Science and Spirituality is pro-human, because human being… surely one aspect of… So, now, we will discuss today’s class… the session of our… no, we will read it, alright. And take your loved medicines and make best use of the bad values.
Let’s go over this first. So… In the history of the advent of Science, through many narratives… So, how… and then… Planck came up with the quantum theory. So, as Science advanced in parallel, technology also advanced.
And amongst the technologies we had… Edison’s electric bulb… the Wright brothers inventing the airplane… and as we move forward… there are huge branches that developed. Television and entertainment is there. Aerospace and high-speed travel.
Computers and information technology. Internet in the local village. Cell phones and communications.
So… It is undeniable… that Science transformed our lives. So, surely Science… through the blessing of technology… What is the precise technology? Very, very precise. Technology is… How can we make use of that knowledge… for… to some extent… changing nature… Technology is the application of Science.
Now, surely there has been tremendous… transformation of life. But, has this transformation… led to overall human progress? And it might be… this question is absurd… because there is so much progress… which has been made. And let’s look at the other side of the coin.
Now, here… we are not talking about the issue… whether what is following… is caused by technology. But, as technology advanced… this could also happen to society. What all has happened? No.
There has been a huge amount of progress. In the past… people would leave their phones open… and still be fearless. Now, what happened? They have modern laws… further along… people are still… fearful.
So, even now… there are many religious… people don’t lock their doors. But, that’s not the case at all… in any particular way. In the past… people would… get very anxious.
It’s farming. And all the farming… involves hard work. It is a regulated hard work.
They have to work 8 hours… and that too… for 4 months. And they get enough… throughout the year. Now, people work… not just for 4 months… but they work… throughout the… year.
And it was 8 hours… after the Industrial Revolution. Now, after the Information Revolution… it is 12 hours. And sometimes… more than that also.
So… and what are all people getting? Ultimately… it’s the same… as in the previous times. Now, in the past… there was uncertainty… because of… rain not coming. Now, there is uncertainty… because of… the global economy… collapsing… recession… job infringement… economic turndown.
So, basically… if you define progress… at a physical and mental level… people are… in some extreme… greater stress… greater anxiety… everyday… in the past. Now, in the past… people… after hard days… were to sleep peacefully. Now… after going in fast cars… and talking on… high-tech mobiles… and working on… such… people… can’t sleep without… a sleeping pill.
You know… human beings are the only species… which needs a sleeping pill to sleep. Just now I was going… towards that… and otherwise the program… was supposed to be held. And there were four dogs… they were sleeping right in the way.
So, you can clearly hear… of the deliriousness… of all those dogs. But they sleep peacefully. There’s no other species… needed… to sleep in pills.
And… if you look back at it… hundreds of millions of people… Now, they may say… oh, science… technology was not… ideologically enough for them… to develop sleeping pills… at that time. And it’s true. But… they didn’t need it.
They were able to sleep… without pills. Or you can keep away… the henchmen… or you can come instead… and they live with… their camping potatoes on the… and it’s… So, sleeping pills… what does it mean? For sleep… it’s something… which has come at a premium. So, people are not able to sleep.
Now… farms offered… huge employment prospects. Why huge employment prospects? Because there’s a lot of… menial work to do. And also… because they are… close to nature… there’s fresh air… there’s hygiene.
Now, when people work in factories… there’s constant fear of employment… lifestyle… because it’s entry… where you can sit in offices… for a long time. And… that leads to a lot of… back problems… finger problems… so many other… difficulties. Or… if they are working in the… in the industrial… workshops… there’s so much noise pollution… air pollution… all the objects over there… which create problems.
So… now this is… general features. Now let’s look at… specific features. Let’s look at violence.
The deaths due to wars… in the 20th century… is a statistic… handed out by the… World Wars Institute. That… there’s a war in the… in the 20th century… 7 times the deaths due to wars… in the previous 19th century. Spiralling.
So why are they spiralling? Now we can say… actually there were World Wars… which played in World War I… and World War II… that’s how some people were killed. That’s true. But again… there are… weapons of mass destruction… are what has made… all of us susceptible to death.
You know after those… after those… 26-11 attacks… in Mumbai… and… you know with the… killing of the Janmashtami… the police comes to our temple. Because we have in Pune temple… almost 35,000 people… come to Janmashtami. Technology… can have one mobile… device… and that… that will explode… not just a bomb… which… will expire… but this contains… a… highly poisonous germs… and that the bomb… which is contained… in a mobile-sized device… which explodes… what will happen is… that can spread germs… to an area of… 6 miles all around.
And people all around… for 6 miles… may be susceptible… may be susceptible to… severe diseases… or to death. Now it’s true that… there are people with… perverted ideology… whatever it is… who are doing this. It’s true but… the point is… technology has made… such terrible… weapons of mass destruction… available to them.
So… surely… as Prabhupada would say… that people are… this is done… and what a situation may… happen… or the technology done… it has produced… faster ways for people to be… killed. And it’s not just violence… if you look at mental health… more people than ever before… suffer from stress… from hypertension… depression… addictions… and you see… even a fish… sometimes is caught by a… bait… or a… mouse may be caught by cheese… caught by cheese… kept in a mousetrap. But those are all fish… and the… mouse has a cheese… whatever is allured them… that looks like a fool… and they don’t know in advance… that it is a trap.
Now we human beings… don’t have either of these things. We have to know why a cigarette looks like a fool. Isn’t it? And who doesn’t know… that cigarette smoke is injurious to health.
So now the Indian government is proposing… that… you know… you put this statutory warning… still people keep smoking… so now they will put… visuals… you know… a person who is smoking… what happens to him… how his lungs get burned… so that will be maintained there… on every cigarette pack. And they are hoping by that… cigarette smoking will increase. But the point remains… that… actually you may have… you may have certain… visual depictions of the harms of… cigarette smoking… but if we compare that… with the… high tech advertisements… of cigarette smoking everywhere… you know… once I was going for a program… so I saw a big holding… of a beauty contest… and of course there were many… scantily dressed females… images over there… and below it was written… the proceeds… from this beauty contest… will be used to treat AIDS patients… so then I was traveling with one devotee… I told him… you know… whether there is cure AIDS by this… I don’t know… but there is cause AIDS by this or not… why… because what is happening is… surely technology is not a reason… but the way technology is used… it is used… to trigger the lower self… it is used to trigger lust… lust… is surely a human feeling… it will always be there… obviously… but in the past… if a person was lusty… what would he do… he would probably go to the… local red tie media and television… and try to fulfill his perverse desire… but now if a person has lust… all the information from all over the world… is available… by one click of one button… either through TV channels… or through the internet… so… what happens is… that… technology… makes this much much… quicker… for a person… to succumb to the lower self… lust… anger… greed… so all these are there… as well as the weaknesses of the human heart… but… these weaknesses… we succumb to them much faster… because of the greed… now there is no doubt too… that… we cannot blame technology… for its weaknesses… certainly that is correct… at the same time… there are eminent scientists… who talk about something called as… morally irresponsible technology… what is morally irresponsible technology… that means… if a child… takes a knife… and the knife… is used… in the hand of a surgeon… he can heal… in the hand of a murderer… he can kill… because the knife is useless… but… if… a person… gives a knife… to a mad man… and after that… the mad man… kills the person… and I think the mad man… should be blamed… but the person… who gave him the knife… will also kill him… hey… responsible… at least partially… isn’t it? look at the very fact… he is mad… he is like a person… who is blind also… he is blind… and he is mad… and he kills a knife… what is he going to do? slash… slash… you don’t know how many people… you will kill like that… so… in modern society… people… are spiritually blind… and… they have become… particularly mad… they are spiritually blind… they don’t know… what is the goal of life… what are the values… according to which… life is to be led… and they have become… particularly mad… because of lust… anger… greed… especially… it’s a nice poem… written for Geeta… it describes… that every needs to help… yes… that is… lust… krodha is… anger… and krodha is… greed… so lust… anger… greed… l-a-g… they call the soul to lag behind… l-a-g… lag behind… soul is trying to go back to God… soul lags behind… out of the lag behind… he turns around… instead of going to the God… he goes farther away from God… so… this leads to hell… now it’s not that… they take the soul to hell… but these… human weaknesses… which is also called as… another part… they also bring hell into the soul… and… if you look at the world objectively… now all the major crimes in the world… can be traced back… to these three anathemas… all the sexual related crimes… whether they are race… or whether they are… child abuse… or whatever… they ultimately originate in lust… now all the corruption… in India corruption has become… it’s a big issue… the CWG scandal… TV scandal… before that the… money in the Swiss banks… now all corruption… where did it originate? Greed… and… we discussed earlier about violence… all violence… all murders… all physical attacks… all originated… control, lust, anger and greed… the majority of the crimes in the world… would go down… but unfortunately… what does technology do? yesterday… I was mentioning how… there is no medicine… which can cure lust… which can cure anger… anger is undesirable… but no doctor can give a rejection… that it can cure anger… now AIDS… and other similar… sexually transmitted diseases… can be avoided… if people don’t indulge in… but… there is no medicine… by which people’s lust… can be controlled… there is no medicine like that… so now that means… technology has its benefits… surely… but… with respect to these… cardinal forces… fundamental forces… within the human psyche… that deceive people… technology doesn’t help much… not only does it not help much… but it also harms… because the technology triggers lust… so… I would like to discuss with you… this covert and overt… sexually transmitted energies… which are there in the media… against… technology triggers anger… how does it trigger anger? because so much violence is shown… in the movies… in the media… and then… what about greed? because greed is so much… because… you know… the movies… the advertisements… they are not about poor people… living in slums… they are all about wealthy people… enjoying comforts… and I see that… people greed is still there… see… human satisfaction… depends on gratitude… and gratitude… comes by seeing… what we have… and you know there is that… sweet quote… I complain that I have no shoes… till I meet a person… who has no shoes… so… when we see what we have… we can be grateful… and we can be happy… but the whole advertisement industry… is based on showing us… what we do… if you have a mobile… take this new mobile… if you have… if you have a bike… take this new bike… if you have a car… take this new car… take this new house… so the whole advertisement industry… runs by… showing us… what we… don’t have… so… actually modern society… which is techno-centered… is characterized by three main activities… it is called as… WWS… not WWW… WWW is World Wide Web… WWS is World Wide Stupidity… what is this World Wide Stupidity… that has come up all over the world… first WWW is… WORK… WORK… like earlier we discussed… so much work people are doing… as compared to earlier… and after work… after working… they come back home… and what do they do… turn on the television… second WWW is WATCH… and when we watch television… what is it… what are the advertisers basically saying… your hair style is wrong… your shirt is wrong… your shoes are wrong… your watch is wrong… your dress is wrong… and what do you have to do… that is right… how… purchase… what do you say… get this… get that… so after watching what do people do… third WWW is SHOP… SHOP… so actually… in the western and westernized countries… they watch TV and shop… and then what happens… when we shop… now a days there are… credit cards… so we purchase… those things… for which we don’t even have the money… or we think we have the money… but then the credit cards which we don’t have… that should be purchased another year… and then we know… so what happens… we have to work harder… and we work harder… then we will go relaxation… so we come back and watch more TV… and we watch more TV… and what happens… we get more desire… and we shop more… and it becomes a vicious… entraping cycle… WORK… WATCH… SHOP… now many responsible parents in the west… they have worked hard… and they have earned a lot of money… but they don’t want to give their inheritance… to their children… because they think… their children will squander… everything away responsibly… they want to give it to their children… but when the parents pass away… they make a phased allocation… of the inheritance… they say… next year only this much… next year only this much… why… because otherwise… the younger people… they will be misled… by the inheritance being missed… and they will completely get lost… they will squander away all the wealth… in one or two years… and then there is nothing left… for the rest of their lives… so the point is… that… the techno-centred society… that we live in… fuels greed… like never before… yes… you know… if we are staying in a house… and our neighbour has a bigger house… he has some extra luxury… that creates greed… but here… we don’t just see our neighbours… we don’t just see our colleagues… we see practically everyone in the world… technology… unfortunately… has become… a servant… of the lower desires of man… all of us have lower desires… and higher desires… lower desire means… the desire to grab… the higher desire… is the desire to give… the desire to share… the lower desire is… solitude… lust… anger… greed… envy… pride… and delusion… so these are actually the lower forms… of those emotions… the higher forms of lust is… love… of greed… is contentment… of anger… is tolerance… of arrogance… is humility… of envy… is respect… and of illusion… is truth… so… we all have these… lower tendencies… and to some extent… the lower desires are also… there in our hearts… but technology… becomes a servant… of these lower desires… and it… actually… stimulates these lower desires… and there are people… who want to make a money… make a business… out of exploiting… our lower desires… and that’s why you see practically… advertising… if there was… a CD to be shown… a CD to be sold… they will show the CD… in the mouth of a female… now what does the female… want to do with the CD? but… that is the difference of the soul… the soul thinks that… when I get a CD… I will let this woman also in… she is not going to get that… but… people imagine like that… and so… technology can no doubt be used… for good purposes… but the way it is used… in society today… is primarily… to… feed… the lower desires… of the common people… and it is used… it is employed… by a vested interest… to exploit… these lower desires… to exploit these lower desires… of the common people… so… now if we look back… like yesterday… I was telling you about my friend… who was doing research… and he got a new stipend… for… making a Lagrangian code… or… making a… finding out ways… to increase the… longevity of a… of a fluid… of… the foam… formed by water… so that it will be a… long-lasting sensation… that is not an exception… now… most of the scientific research… that is done today… is funded… by two main sources… so… most of the research… that is done today… is funded… by two sources… one is the industry… so… the defence… in the defence… actually what do they want to do… they call it defence… but it is a primary offence… because you have to attack… and… it is violence… it is basically violence… surely you need weapons for self-defence… there is no doubt about that… but the whole idea is… for all the countries in the world… so much of energy… is diverted into just… of mass destruction… so… most of the funding for research… comes from… defence is one source… and the second is industry… so… now… scientists… and researchers… are not just… selfless pages… who can work without salary… but they need a salary… and they also need… property… and power and position… and projects… these come from… primarily… industry… and defence… so that industry… is also not run by people… who are out to do selfless good to the world… industry is run by people… who are out to make… so… nowadays… biotechnology… is one field… which is really being exploited… for demoniac purposes… by many people… because… GDP… has been promoted extensively… by the… slaughterhouse industry… they don’t call it slaughterhouse industry… they call it… meat packing industry… people like that… it’s like slaughterhouse… you can strictly call it as… meat packing industry… but there are several organisations… like… they have… they have people… who are integrated to the families… and they expose… and violence goes on… in the slaughterhouses… there was John Lennon… who said… if slaughterhouses had windows… nobody in the world… would live here… so actually… they took the cameras… they took pictures… so now… what currently… researchers are trying to do is… they are trying to… develop… animals… for example… there is a hen… with a genetic mutation… by which the hen… has a short beak… it’s not very possible… as best… but short legs… it has feathers… and it has… huge bulge… of flesh… because the feathers… and the beak… and the… claws… they are not eatable… so they try to… genetically manipulate… and… they try to… create… more and more flesh… and this poor hen… does not even want to go… and that’s what… they are doing… with cows… they are trying to… make a cow… which has practically no legs… note what is happening here is… that… the greed… of the cow… which is there of people… has been systematically exploited… using technology… and… therefore… I’ll… I’ll start in this talk… for the whole talk… why… this particular topic… by talking about… modernly… irresponsible technology… modernly irresponsible technology means… if we… as… individuals… give technology in the hands… of those who misuse it… or those who are very clear… prone to misuse it… then who is responsible? we are at least partially responsible… if parents… give… free and… unfiltered access… to the internet… to their children… and the children are somewhere… at the age of 8, 9, 10, 11… they are… surfing… obscene sites… with his daughter… it’s a very petty usage… petty mistake actually… so… there is now… a. the child gets… mentally perverted by that… so who is responsible for that? you can say the child doesn’t need it… but the parents give access… so like that… when technological access is provided… to people… in an unfiltered way… that is actually morally crucial… in fact… just before the second world war started… especially as… planes… in the first world war… planes did not play a major role… because the technological influence… was not so well developed… the second world war… planes played a decisive role… in bombing… so as the planes were being developed… in the… as the world war was about to come… and even before the world war was looming… on the horizon… so many hunters… they resigned from their jobs… and the researchers said… we cannot create weapons… we should kill our fellow human beings… but… what happened? the money makes the miracle… and many other scientists… still the gap… you know… it is… to some extent… a tragic reflection… of… the nature… of science and technology… that the greatest… insight… of the greatest brain… of the 20th century… led… to the… greatest destruction… of the 20th century… Einstein… was considered to be the greatest brain… of the last century… and his greatest insight was… the interchangeability of… matter and energy… is equal to energy squared… now… it was his greatest… the greatest insight of the greatest brain… that led to the development of the… atom bomb… and Einstein… who was actually… from… he was a Jew from Germany… he came to… America… and he sent a letter… to… the American President… saying that… before Hitler develops… atom bombs… we should develop… and then… they took it up… and they… made this bomb… and then they… propped it on Hiroshima and Nagasaki… and actually later on… America… sent aid… to Hiroshima and Nagasaki also… so America has… double standards… when… they bombed us… they have sent planes… first bombing Afghanistan… and then… after they have sent planes… dropping sandwiches… some poor Afghan people… how do they know… which plane will drop… sandwiches… and which will drop bombs… experimenting… creating some sort of… right event… then America sent relief… to Japan… after those… taking double attack… of the atom bombs… Einstein went to the relief… to the… relief… missionaries… and he saw… the extent of… graciousness… and he said… in the last day of my life… I regret to be… when I sent a letter… to the American Constitution… to… start off the mission… of atom bombs… later on of course… it was discovered that… Hitler was quite far away… from making atom bombs… he was not so close… he had some… uranium and other things… but the technology… was not there at the time… but anyway… the point is… it’s so tragic… that the greatest insight… the greatest bringing… is social differentiation… so this indicates… that… you know… when we give human beings… the ability to control each other… manipulating each other… we are placing in their hands… a fearsome power… which they can… abuse in disastrous ways… so… as we know… there is suicide… so now according to WHO… over one million people… commit suicide every year… there is a figure… which is more the total number… of deaths… in wars and homicides… homicides and murders… combined together… for example… now… if one country… attacks another country… all other countries… one million people every year… means… one suicide every 40 seconds… one suicide every 40 seconds… means… since he started this class… 70 people lost their accommodation… if you look back at history… so he tells that… everywhere… that people commit suicide… because of suicide… overall… suiciding has not taken place… suiciding is happening more… as we know… there are marriages… and there are… divorces… so… one of the marriages… ends in divorce… three years of marriage… in USA and… Europe and USA… in fact now they call it… prenups… and if you know what is prenups… prenups is… prenatal arrangements… what do they do… prenatally… before marriage they make arrangements… that ok… if you divorce after one year… you will get this much property… I will get full job… if we are divorced after four years… and we have a child… what happens… now again… why is divorce… there are many reasons… through the television… through the movies… through the media… there is so much… propaganda… of… pre-marital… extra-marital affairs… many of the soap operas… which were there… the best which came earlier… to start it… they are imitated… by Indian producers… and they make… extra-marital affairs… seem very glamorous… exciting… and because of that… people want to imitate… I mean they imitate… and naturally there are abuses… so… juvenile delinquency is… like children committing crimes… that is… rampant among children… among children from broken marriages… one of the sentences… such as I found… is that… the best predictor… of whether a child… when he grows up as a teenager… will fall prey to bad habits or not… one of the best predictors is… whether he is coming in a family… where there is a mother and father together or not… if the mother and father are not together… he doesn’t get the love of both of them… then… that… lack of love… and the frustration that results from that… is expressed through violence… and perversity… in India… we are enamored by the western culture… but often we don’t realize… the suicide of the culture… now probably most of us… we got the love of our mother and father… but in the west… love of mother and father is a customary… because… some of you may go to the west in the future… for your higher studies or your… actually it is considered… indecent and impolite… to ask a person… who is your mother and who is your father… because many times people have… two mothers and three fathers… and it is considered a very bad habit… to ask people… whether it is a bad habit or not… it is actually a situation where… society is going to a large extent… and of course… most of us know about ecology… now this was the way ecology originally was… but now what is happening to the ecology… global warming… is just one of the phenomena… but overall there is climate change… because the climate change… we are… so much pollution… that there are… now we need computers… and computers get obsolete… so when the computers become obsolete… silicon is not very easily available… so what can we do with those computers… so actually America developed a mission… in America… in Ohio… there is almost a 10 mile by 10 mile patch… where there are just waste car junk put over there… so big… so what do we need to do… nuclear plants… nuclear waste… you cannot put it under the ground… because it will poison the ground water… you cannot burn it… because it will poison the atmosphere… you cannot throw it into the ocean… because it will kill the fish… and you want to eat the fish also… so what to do… so now America has come up with a multi-million dollar project… to actually take… the most dangerous pollutants that are there on the earth… and put them in a satellite… and put them on top of a rocket… and throw it into outer space… because they don’t know there are devatas in there… so we are going to identify the pollutants… and… the extent of pollution is so alarming… that… one out of every six rivers in the world… does not reach the ocean… one out of every six rivers… and what does this imply… this implies that all the people who live in the banks of the river… they all… have no livelihood… they cannot have farms… they cannot have cities… you know… what we call as Rajasthan today… 5000 years ago… that was the area where the satellites were… and the American… remote sensing satellites… they have found… that below the Rajasthan area… there is a bed… under the ground… there is a bed of a very big river… but when the river died out… because of seismic disturbances… earthquakes and other things… whole civilization was lost… and that’s what can happen… and so we see… that human beings have created a huge amount of disaster… now… about… I think 15 years ago or something… you know the Ganges caught fire… how can a river catch a fire… generally the fire is that water from the river extinguishes the fire… and what had happened was… there was so much effluents… toxic effluents in the intestine input of the Ganges… that somebody smoked a cigarette… and threw it into the Ganges… and what happened to the effluents… and the effluents caught fire… and for several days… people were trying to extinguish the fire… and the river itself is… on fire… it’s a flowing fire… it’s a flowing fire… and how do you extinguish that… it’s a flowing fire also… and this is it… so… the point is… that an ecology… so… on average people’s life span will be cut down by 10 years… due to the alarming pollution levels… and what was the situation then… environment was super disaster… super disaster… we had one tsunami… so the global ice caps melt… and the ocean level rises because of that… so the polar ice caps melt… the ocean level rises… and several coastal cities could be engulfed by water… so… what was the situation then… the environment is super disaster… and no longer a doomsday propensity… doomsday propensity is… some brilliant people came… and we are… since the brilliant people came like this… they are kind of saying this… but in reality it’s predicted by science… so I show this slide… the dark side of science… is that… society as a whole… is much worse off… than what it was earlier… so what came from… so technology’s blessings come coupled with… many curses… and in general the blessings are visible… the curses are invisible… at least not immediately visible… so let’s stick this on that… so… would you like somebody to read this… standard of living… what happens… we have locomotion… and we have comforts… but what does it look like… we don’t have fresh air… we don’t have clean water… we don’t have cheap nutritious food… now if you compare these two… among these two which are more important… the lower ones… if we don’t have cars… still we can live… but if we don’t have fresh air… it will become much much more difficult to live… now cars create the pollution… so… cars create pollution… but they pollute the environment… by changing the fluid into rivers… so… actually… in one sense at a physical level… we are getting comforts… but we are losing necessities… getting comforts… but losing necessities… and comforts come for a few people… but necessities go away for everyone… how many people are going to buy a car… a small percentage… but how many people are going to breathe the polluted air… it gives you breathing… and kills you in one second… it gives you breathing… it shows you all the problems… but it kills you in one second… this is bold lies… but the fact is… there is suicide… there is anxiety… this pollution creates fear… it creates violence… it creates insecurity… so there is another problem… there is desertification… huge amount of inflation… the government suddenly raises the petrol price… so… you may have more salary… but the money has been spent… when you travel from one place to another… you go from Mumbai to Delhi… there is severe cutthroat… for non-biodegradable consumer products… but in overall… our lifestyle companies… they offer people… care… by export… in America health hospitals… they are very cheap… our environment is unhealthy… and there are many incurable diseases… there is a doctor called Ray Du Bois… he wrote a book called… 21st century… the future of illusion… now… he said… actually we can say… because… certain socio-cultural… conditions… create certain illusions… so now black plague… will not happen… we don’t have… rats running all around our houses… so… the diseases come… because of socio-cultural circumstances… and then go away… so one of our devotees… comes from a village… and he went to the village… there was one common… and the doctor was… by people… and recently… the local MP… came to the village… and he said… there is a 300 bed hospital… there is a small village… symptoms of black plague… so now… technology covers… doesn’t cure black plague… how will that be cured? can technology stop old age? there is a whole field called… study of old age… but… there are so many… cures that are promised… oh your hair has become black… you can do that… but the World Health Organization… about… 5-6 years ago… issued a public statement… issued a statement for public interest… the statement said… despite all the propaganda… about magical cures and surgeries… and medications… we would like to inform the public… there is no technology… that can stop… that can reverse… stop… or slow the aging process… what can we not do? we can’t live with it… we can’t make an old person young… we can’t stop it… we can’t stop a young person from growing old… now we can at least slow the process… so… that means you can’t do anything… you can just cover up… therefore technology can’t stop… old age disease and death… so… this is the real cure… now… all this presentation… is not meant to say that technology itself is bad… a painkiller has its side effects… the painkiller… is a medicine that is combined to cure… but the patient… is not very intelligent… the painkiller I take… I don’t need the medicine… I take only the painkiller… he may think he is getting better… but actually he is getting worse… so… when you take the medicine… the painkiller will kill the patient… because he will not get ahead of the… now just as… the painkiller will make the medicine appear unnecessary… similarly technology… will spiritually appear… unnecessary and undesirable… why do we need to… why do we need to worship God… whether we are modern or ancient or medieval… we will recycle us under electricity… conduct us electrically… but still ultimately we depend on some spiritual… but unfortunately… there is no need for God… guided missiles and misguided men… so now… how does this tragedy… of guided missiles and misguided men happen… so I discussed about this yesterday… Jeevism, Jeevism, Atheism… so… so… in the Abhishya… there is Paravidya… Aparavidya… and Avidya… Avidya does not give ignorance… Avidya is knowledge… that keeps us in ignorance… I will explain what that means… knowledge keeps us in ignorance… knowledge keeps us in the broad picture… we just have a tunnel vision… but we don’t know anything about everything… we have a tunnel vision… like… the revolver is in the chest… and it will hit the stomach also… so I just positioned the revolver… and I took all the papers and went to him… and I told him… I will fix the hemoglobin process… he analyzed it, studied it… I don’t know… I don’t study below the knee… I do a perfect heart surgery… I cure the heart but while curing the heart… I will cut the lungs… what will happen? operation successful… it’s ok… so what happens is… we cannot segregate one organ… from the rest of the body… because it’s a living person… like that the world we live in… So when we take one branch of knowledge and specialise in that, and we let it affect that branch of knowledge, then we are actually doing a disservice.
So yes, we have developed nuclear technology, we have probed deep into the mysteries of physics, through the atoms, and we have unleashed the power that is there. But, if you don’t consider the broader picture, then what happens is, that same knowledge can be used to destroy… So, Aparajya Vidya means any partial fragmented knowledge. And then, collect Avidya.
So now, I was telling you about, there is technology in the latest times and technology in the modern times. But what is the difference? The difference is that, in the modern times, technology is seen as a substitute for sociology. And in the latest times, technology was an addition for sociology.
It was an addition. So you see, what we mean by peripheral? Sometimes we take one peripheral, and then, when you see, it is released. But next time when the time comes, the same dosage peripheral doesn’t work.
Because if it doesn’t work, then we need a higher dosage peripheral. So like that, if you look at the movies. 50 years ago, the movies, the violence movies were cheap.
And now, violence is big building. Bomb. Alarm.
Earlier, music would be so classic. The disease of boredom. You know, what is their idea of enjoyment? Their idea of enjoyment is, forgetting the emptiness and boredom of their life.
Any… Because what is this? Because after the cricket match gets over, after the… The real benefit is spirituality. So, the Vedic culture also has technology. But how was the technology? The technology was intricately connected to spirituality.
It was stayed in the scriptures in infinite cycles. So, technology is an assistant to scriptures. You should not think that it is a Vedic science.
Knowledge about the Asma, Brahma, Paramyama, Bhagavan, matter. Some aspects of Vedic apology. See, yesterday I told you about Gandharan.
Vishnupasutra. It is like… The particle is here. So, those of you who don’t understand this, what is it referring to? And now, ethically… There is a… The Sanskrit word is square root of two also.
So, there was a great mathematician called Madhavacharya. Now, he discovered the Taylor series cosine function. 250 years before, Brook Taylor discovered it.
Similarly, I discovered the Newton’s power series. Way before Newton. Similarly, I discovered Leibniz series.
250 years before Leibniz. He discovered the… Lord Krishna Acharya discovered thousands of years before Newton. And then, forward and backward and forward and forward.
So, he discovered the Gauss interposing formula. What we call Newton-Gauss is actually discovered by Goenka Swami. Now, who would like to read this? Albert Einstein.
Loudly. So, what it means? How to count? Two things. The place and the system.
Here, in the past, if you try to count numbers, for every number, you have to have a symbol. So, you have to write 100. You have to remember 100 distinct symbols.
How much swimming was there? You have to remember each symbol. Now, the place and the system is so easy. Because now, if you have the books from the 1920s or 1880s, 1890s, they have this… they have this Earthian numerical system.
So, India gave the world the place and the system. We call it the Arabic numerals. But they are not Arabic numerals.
They have come from India. Zero. The concept of zero was developed in India.
So, Abraham Lincoln was a very famous mathematician. He wrote a book called The History of Mathematics. And it is an ancient Egyptian, developed in the Greek geometry.
Derived from the mathematics recorded in the Shulba Sutra. Shulba Sutra are books which describe the geometry of sacrificial altars. Sacrificial altar means that yajnas have to be done.
Now, it is simple. You are getting a screen with a small hole in the ground. And they put some wood in that.
Put some ghee. That is the yajna done. In the past, yajnas were not like that.
There were huge yajna shafts. These yajna shafts. And one on… 25 on this side, 25 on this side, 25 on this side.
And the way the other manuscripts describe, that for different specific purposes, the yajna shafts have to be made of stucco already. How is it? Do you have to go to alien view and look and get it? No. So, this sort of description… So, Sirenberg in his book also says that, Shulba Sutra is the oldest history of geometry which we have.
Oldest historical record. So, Lapunov, what does he say? He talks about the place of history. It is India that gave us the ingenious method of expressing… We appreciate the grandeur of this achievement, the more when we remember, that we escaped the genius of Archimedes and Apollonius.
That means the idea of place and system didn’t come to things in the Vedic tradition. Dr. Richard Earls wanted to say that, Richard Earls, in the Nobel laureate, he said, India as a world, what does India have? It is a world of academic community, circles of highly trained scientists, perhaps with a special attention towards the more theoretical aspects of science, and still maintaining a link to the ancient Indian culture. So, I am convinced that India will once again become the cradle of a new school of thought that may significantly influence the fate of the globe in the third millennium.
Perhaps the contribution of India to nuclear power technology and space science will turn out, but the contributions to it could be serving the need of history. So, what he is basically saying is, India can offer more technology, India can offer more benediction to the world with that. And by their culture and their upbringing, they are still very much connected with spirituality.
So, for bringing about a moon, the rest is like the blind man, and India is like a lame man. But, for the lame man and the blind man to come together, two conditions are necessary. First condition is that, the blind man has to admit that he is blind.
And to some extent, the rest is with the culture, with the nukes, with the propaganda, with the rest. So, the idea was that, when Robert Fried went, 1 billion people, something like 1 billion people, but he propagated, although he plundered India so much, to take the most prestigious job in the world. Now, I have come to give you.
So, we don’t have to give technology, but we do have to give the illusion that technology will make us happy. It can be used as a tool, the illusion that technology can solve all. Who have plundered a bank, and the thieves are going away, and then the thieves run away, or should they break the street limit? They should.
What should they do? Break the street limit, isn’t it? Because, the street limit is the letter of the law. So, ideally, for propagating spirituality, you cannot leave technology. And I will tell you, when technology is being used to propagate materialism, technology is being used to propagate atheism, to trigger the lower desires of people, then, as devotees, we also use technology.
For what purpose? For teaching people the truth. We have a glorious media where you come, cultural center, where, you know, people have, where they have, so, the robot seeks, the robot will seek, the robot will seek that. So, the people, if you tell them that, Bhagavad Gita, actually, they will not come.
But robots are seeking Bhagavad Gita, they will come to seek Bhagavad Gita. By having detachment, you take inducement. So, we are detached from technology for our own self-realization.
But you understand, that, historically, people have worked harder, they are there in modern society. So, that means, the problem that technology will make humanity have, what went wrong was that, technology has its utility. But when technology was used to supersede spirituality, with the false hope, that technology will solve all human problems.
Then we discussed how all lessons of technology are such that, at emergent level, we can see the danger of, so, spirituality is the paradigm. And, as long as paradigm, achieve that goal of, Vedic mathematics, Vastu, Shastra, all these are big, but Avidya makes it an absolute. If from Paravidya, we can get the knowledge of the purpose and value, we shouldn’t think that Indians, Indians themselves, did not have, technology, or scientific knowledge.
But, it was balanced in spiritual knowledge. So, we, may not have access to that, scientific knowledge was there during the times. Now, so, if we use western technology, but, our own living, we may, and we may, but we do have, if we have the initial technology, then it can happen.
You know, you can call it, if the danger of nothing, if we have a curse, technology is mutual in one sense. It’s there in life. But, because people, are, having lower desires, and their lower desires are, triggered by technology, so, it’s reliance can be used, as a curse in a sense.
Reliance can be used as a curse. But, because it’s already there, what we need to do is, we need to, utilize it, for a positive purpose. So, technology, can be a blessing, can be a curse, depending on how we use it.
But, how we use it, will depend on, whether we get spiritual knowledge or not. And that’s why, without spirituality, technology will be a curse. With spirituality, technology can, 50 years ago, or 100 years ago, people used to die, girls were exploited in the home, but now, although, lust has increased, so, we are not saying here, that, technology has not helped, in the past, the problem is not, we are not saying, that technology has not helped.
That, do the blessings of technology, balance our rejections? So, that’s a, two points, by sin, we have been, screaming in pain, for months today, Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s, heart, when a person gets Alzheimer’s, he gets a memory, his father, is elderly man, and he just took a scooter, and went out, what do you think he will do? He can’t really say that, he’ll be cured, and where credit is due, where credit is due, credit should surely be there, that, technology is like a magic wand, so, we are not saying, technology can’t cure all diseases, surely it can, but, the, and the, clearly know the fundamentals, to be able to operate technology, agriculture, and he comes to a village, where he finds, that a farmer is having a culture, that farmer, has converted mud, into landforms, the farmer, did not make the seed, by which, the seed transforms, into a tree, and gives a name, so, what does the farmer do? there are three existing, mechanisms, within nature, which the farmer does, similarly, it can be referred, to the technology, now, we people, even villagers, are very enamored, what amazing things, I have to say, we can say, the mobiles, are amazing things, but the question is, which makes, most electronic, and telephonic model, possible, that, is it creating, the phantoms, there are certain, as we say, conductors, so now, why is it, when you conduct them, there are different, theories, within the sense of, the quantity, within the, nature, and technology, similarly, there has to be, a clear atmosphere, through which, the electronics, will be basically, transmitted, is that creating, the phantoms, and sustain, that the, whole phenomena, that sound, and audio, so what have, when we have, developed a mobile, what have we done, we have basically, tapped, pre-existing phenomena, and surely, they are tapping, at a sophisticated, but, just as, they have left the mask, they have tapped, pre-existing phenomena, which are already, there, created by God, another problem is, that, the success of science, technology, unvalidated, blind faith, fake intelligence, you have a colleague, you have, a colleague, who is a friend, of your father, and tell him about this, till now, his record of consultation, is 100% right, so, did you go to him for, no, because, that’s not a discussion, so, just because, he has been successful, in giving you a guidance, for financial investments, throughout, till now, that doesn’t mean, that he is expert in all fields, because, there are different fields, but, then the scientists say, that yes, why, the big time, the whole universe came about, because, there is no experiment, to demonstrate it, there is no, theoretical mechanism, to explain it, so, much of these, sciences are origins, origins is, origin of life, and origins, they are high, why high speculative, because, there is a very small, sample, and there is a vast, generalization, what does that mean, for how many centuries, have we observed, the universe, systematically, in so much time, maybe 200, 300 times, but, even, according to science, the universe is, millions of years old, so, we are observing, for 200, 300 years, and, that is only, the vicinity of our earth, and the nature, and the origins, of the entire universe, some, ET, an extraterrestrial, to, estimate the population, of the earth, birds, 30 to 80, one and half, 90 full minutes, the population, of planet earth, is male engineers, of the age range, of 20 to 30, and, he said, the observation, is correct, the inference, is wrong, because, it is a small sample, it was a small scale, in a large generalization, so, especially, with respect to, origins, with respect to, the revelation, of the origin of life, and, with respect to, the origin of the universe, and, the generalization, that is done, is completely, unbalanced, and, that is why, we should not think, that, all the sciences, are equally, accredited, where it is usually, given, but, there are fields of science, and, we cannot say, that all branches of science, neuroscience, has no authority, as compared to, say, electronics, so, it is a very rudimentary, science, generalized, science, God, a God, a super soul, a human, so, A, because of science, and technology, people’s faith, in God, is in damage, then, this is the point, that questionable, both spiritually, and, spiritually, the question of, origin, value, claims to give answers, to those, then, God is a controller, He can modify, can He adjust, the dimension, and dimension, of technology, surely, God gives us, freedom, not unlimited freedom, but, so, God does not interfere, if we want to, change God, God will himself, give us to Darwin, but, as long as, we imagine, that other people, we will see, we as devotees, spread Krishna’s message, so, can Krishna adjust, yes, but, He will adjust to you, and me, now, once a person, has already sent someone, I have already sent somebody, who is that, you, now, today, we are understanding this, and then, if we, go on, this, test, during birth, like, for example, because of karma, nowadays, we are not, letting many people, die during birth, and, one more thing, I want to ask, like, you were saying, we are able to discover, semiconductors, because, this, because, not, not because, of scientists, actually, you said that, you exactly said, I said that, science has not created, the mechanism, they have tapped, the pre-existing, the answer, so, science is basically, discovering about, the nature, not creating nature, so, that is, applicable to everything, so, is the law of karma, being, changed, but, complementary, to the law of karma, is the concept, of duty, the law of karma, has to be, very carefully, understood, if a patient is sick, then, we can argue, that he is sick, because of his karma, when a doctor, goes and gives medicine, to the patient, he says, doctor is interfering, at first, when a child is born, the child is crying, we complement it, with knowledge of dharma, where is karma, and there is karma, so, the law of karma, is told, primarily, so that, we understand, that, when we, deviate from dharma, we suffer, but, that doesn’t mean, that if somebody else, is suffering, that doesn’t mean, we deviate, from our dharma, if a patient is sick, he is sick, because, he deviated, from dharma, he did something wrong, in the past, because he is sick, and use whatever, technology is available, unraveling the mystery, of karma, power point, you know, when Dhritarashtra, was being persuaded, by Dhritarashtra, stop your, evil minded son, from choosing, a course of action, that will bring, a better life, the destruction, of the entire, Kuru dynasty, don’t let, Duryodhana, fight war, with the Pandavas, let them, get back, their rightful kingdom, I am a tiny mortal, if destiny, desires, the destruction, of the Kuru dynasty, who am I, a tiny mortal, to stop, the working, of almighty destiny, very convenient, philosophy, he didn’t talk, about destiny, when Duryodhana, wanted to jump in, and take, the freedom, from the power, Duryodhana, did not tell him, hey, if destiny, will come to you, why do you have to, say like this, now, when Duryodhana, is returning, he is saying, oh, what if destiny, is to break, through his illusion, and he told him, ok, destiny, determines, the consequences, of our actions, not our actions, themselves, I repeat, destiny determines, the consequences, of our actions, not our actions, themselves, so, if a, child, infant, is sick, and the doctor goes, to cure, now sometimes, the doctor, despite trying to cure, may not be able to cure, the disease, that is determined, by destiny, but whether the doctor, tries to cure, or not, that is not, determined by destiny, destiny determines, the consequences, of our actions, not our actions, and who determines, our actions, that is, our people, and our actions, we should use, our free will, to make our actions, according to dharma, so, if a doctor, has a particular technology, you know, we would prefer, Ayurvedic technology, because it is more natural, more harmonious, more in sync, with the Vedic spirit, but, but, if, Ayurveda, and dharma, compare to Ayurvedic doctors, they need, a jacket, and so, they quick, they cure, even using allopathic, so, the idea is, that the law of dharma, and its knowledge, has to be complemented, and balanced, by understanding of dharma, so, when people are suffering, it is not for us, to judge them, they are suffering, by their past karma, for us, to help, and that, helping is our karma, even after helping, sometimes, you know, you just help, heal them, that we understand, is their karma, so, an example, illustrated, from this point, if a patient, has got, some disease, because, of, improper texture, like kidneys, now, if he goes to doctor, the doctor tells, you rascal, you are simple, and immoral, that is why, you got this disease, proper attack, isn’t it, if the doctor starts, condemning the patient, like that, then the doctor, is failing in his duty, on the other hand, if the doctor dies, then also, he is failing in his duty, so, the doctor, has to provide medicine, practical help, and he has also, to provide education, so, like that, the same disease, will come again, so, like that, as devotees, when we preach, you know, it is in our capacity, it is our duty, so, the law of karma, is not being changed, but, because, scientists desire, very strongly, to understand nature, and understand the, version of nature, so, Krishna has given, their insights, and by those insights, and the medicines, have been done, so, even then, certain people, may not be cured, then it is their karma, but if they are cured, then we understand that, actually the person, did his duty, and that’s why, by his duty, he really did his duty, he will get the right result, for that, by not doing his duty, he will be fine, it is not that, karma was changed, even in the past, there were certain diseases, which were cured, traditional cures were less, no, the karma, we should not think, it is like a static unit, it is a dynamic unit, for example, we may not be able to change, the quantity of karma, but we can change, the way in which, it comes in our life, remember, now there is time, now because of karma, we are supposed to, suffer a bit of karma, if we have time, we can mitigate the pain, mitigate the suffering, of the pain, but that suffering, will come in some other way, so, by our endeavour, we can change, the form of karma, but we cannot change, the quantum of karma, the suffering, so, tomorrow we can change, the quantum of karma, we cannot change, the quantum, we can change, the quantity of actions, that, one who thinks, that my actions, represent the result, he, he is a foolish person, and he does not see properly, what does that mean? that our actions, are not the sole, determinants of the result, for example, we study, now if you ask, who studies, alone, physical results, hmm, there are so many factors, what kind of people said, and what kind of, what is the health situation, at the time of the exam, so, what are the factors, that determine the result, the value for our actions, it describes three factors, there is karma, there is value, and there is value, and all these three factors, come together, and the results come out, so, if I can explain, in elaboration, but briefly over here, example of farming, when a farmer, has got a touch of land, his karma, is to, sow the seed, and plough the land, but after sowing the seed, and ploughing the land, he has done the action, but the action, I don’t want to determine the consequence, no, by the daiva, by the destiny, the rains have to come, they have to come in time, in proper quantity, and, after he has done the karma, and the daiva provides the rain, then, a certain amount of kala, has to pass, and then, karma, daiva, and kala, all three come together, in a proper way, so, actions alone, do not determine the consequence, actions are, one of the factors, which determine the consequence, along with that, destiny also plays a role, in determining the consequence, I still feel that, the next question is, the second question, is still unanswered, he asked the second question, that, although, the blast happened, but, the market flirtation, that was there, India, are, a continuation, of the, western, educational, media setup, which was made, by the British community, when they were ruling India, you know, I could have a whole channel, when the Britishers ruled India, they, knew that, we are not, as, the only way, to rule India, is, with the help of Indians, and our civilization, should be regulated, and therefore, by allowing us, to rule you, you will benefit, because, you may teach, about all, that we know, so, to, further this agenda, what did the, British government do, they, first of all, started education in English, they started education in English, I think, as you can get jobs, in the British government, at that time, there was ICS, what do you call it, you get jobs in ICS, because, I teach you the Bible also, and I teach you the Vedas also, so, you can study, and you can justify yourself, study, or the Vedic culture, in general, was studied, by the educated people, now, the traditional Brahmins, they consider, so, then, who was going to translate, all the Vedic literature, in English, the western Indians, used to translate, Max Miller, and, our old Christians, I hope, that, by my translation, of the Vedic literature, and, of the Hindus, will you speak, in, their, in their religion, and, they will be, by, the wisdom of Christianity, and, they will convert to Christianity, that was the agenda, so, H.H. Wilson, was the, chairman of the, modern chair of Sanskrit, and, every 15 years, just like you have competitions, but, you know, paper presentation competitions are there, ok, who will present the best paper, so, during this time, the paper presentation competition was, you know, who will present, the best reputation, of the Hindu religious history, that was the competition, almost, in the 19th century, he gave, 200 pounds, as a prize, now, 200 pounds, at that time, was more, than the salary, of an average teacher, throughout the day, so, they studied, the Vedic literature, but, they were not, driven from there, the whole, the Vedic literature, was studied mostly, in India, to improve them, and to, make Indians, because of, unfortunately, even after India, became independent, there was no, major revamping, of the Indian religious, and, most of the syllabus, had been studied, and, the systems of study, were all, more or less, continuations of, what the colonial model was, and, that’s why, through this, we get a very distorted, picture of Hinduism, you know, the Muslims, who ruled India, Mughals and others, and, thousands of temples were destroyed, but, when the Britishers, ruled India, they were subtle, they didn’t destroy the temples, they destroyed the face, that made people go to the temples, so, they had, several attacks, in the Indian culture, one was the exploitation of women, second was the caste system, these were all, used in there, assuming it was there, what’s the rest, can be done, that’s in the medieval ages, millions, thousands of women, were killed, because, Hindus, the Catholics, if any husband says, that, my wife is uncivil, whole village will come together, and stone the woman to death, stone the woman to death, and, not one after the other, so, any woman was considered to be a, either, or, she’s called a witch, and, so, we expect a man, to see, that his wife has become pregnant, and believe, now, why was exploiting a woman there, similarly, in the Islamic culture, you know, they have circumcision, and, the men and males, they do it, the woman, the, astralisation, even now, there’s been doubts, if it is part time, but, if you do, one society considers a woman to be, except, now then, now, Sati and Jayauddin, he has two wives, Kulti and Madhuri, and both of them, actually, prefer to go separate, the fire of separation from the husband, now, I’m talking about, a few five years, You know what kind of love is there? You know probably we don’t. You know if the father falls sick, the father doesn’t have it and tells the person. So, it is considered privileged and Mahatma Yudhishthira, in his register, in complete reluctance, he agreed to it.
According to Manasamhita, the inheritance goes from the father to the son. Now, the daughter never gets money. Does that mean there is a discrimination? No.
And the treasury of the mother. So, the dowry system was what? Whatever jewellery the mother has, that is not the husband’s property. That is her property.
If the husband leaves money in the in-debt, then he will have to borrow it from his wife and use it to recover the debt. And then after repaying the debt, the wife will give it to her daughter. And when the daughter is married, she will give it onwards to her daughter.
And this way it will go on. So, that’s how it works. Now, over time, it will be generated.
And surely, there will be discouraging of modern machines. We have another lab. Gopal, please.
Hare Krishna.