How the fictional points to the spiritual

[Bhagavatam class on Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.13.26 at Alachua, USA]

ppt:

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
Hare Krishna.
So, today morning, I am discussing from the 26th verse, this section where the analysis is given of how one can become out of the illusions of material existence. So, actually, last week I was supposed to take the 26th verse and this week 31st. But a mistake, I took 31st last week.
So, I’ll just, this is a little going back. I’ll go over the flow from 26th to 31st and then I have a PowerPoint for today’s class. So, this section, the previous verse, it was said that actually there is the Lord who is transcendental to all material existence.
The soul is also transcendental. Then this verse is saying that the soul’s consciousness gets invested into the world, in the sense objects and in the mind which is contemplating the sense objects. The next few verses will say how actually the Lord exists beyond all this.
And there are three different states of consciousness. The wakeful state, the sleeping state and the deep sleep state. But the Lord is beyond all this.
And the flow of the verses is basically the more we can focus on the Lord, then these three states of consciousness in which the soul is entangled, the soul will become disentangled from that. So, I mentioned about, can you project? So, I mentioned about the different states of consciousness in last time’s class. I’ll quickly summarise that.
And this is the theme, how the fictional points to the spiritual. So, we have superman, spiderman, white man. So, how they can all point us towards Krishna.
That is the theme I’ll speak today. So, this is the topic I spoke last week. You can see in between there is the soul and from the soul the consciousness comes out.
So, around the soul, the yellow circle is the soul, the blue is the subtle body, the red is the gross body. So, when the soul’s consciousness comes out through the subtle body till the gross body and outside, that is the waking state. That is called the Jagruti state.
So, that is the state in which all of us are now. Now, in sleep state, the soul’s consciousness comes out. So, the soul is here, the subtle body is here, the gross body is here.
The soul’s consciousness comes out till the subtle body, but not the gross body. That is the dream state. You can see the second arrow over there.
That is the Swapna stage. So, consciousness comes out till the subtle body. But the soul’s consciousness stays only itself, withdrawn, not even reaching the subtle body.
That is the deep sleep state, dreamless sleep, that is Sushupti. And the soul’s consciousness gets directed towards spiritual reality, the arrow going this way, towards the greenish circle. That is the stage of Turiya or Samadhi.
That is the liberated state of consciousness. That is where Krishna exists and that is where the pure soul’s consciousness exists. So, when we experience dreams, basically we experience life at the mental level.
Now, in this verse it says that the soul’s consciousness can come till the mind and we fantasise, or it can come out till the body and then we engage in various activities. So, basically when we experience reality, when we experience something, we experience at different levels. Right now, we are experiencing things at the physical level.
If you are sitting here, some of you may be feeling that this is too warm, you need more fan. Some of you may be feeling, I am hungry, I want to go out and eat. So, some of you may be feeling, how long can I sit? I just want to go and do something.
So, these are physical experiences that we are having. This is at the physical level. Now, sometimes we also experience at the mental level.
So, for example, when we are sitting here, we are thinking, okay, what do I have in food for my lunch today? After lunch time comes, I will be eating that. I enjoy it. So, that’s at the level of the mind we are experiencing.
And that experience also is real in the sense that we experience it. Now, as I said last time, somebody has a dream. Then in the dream, they will be chased by a tiger.
They actually start breathing fast. In a dream, if I think that some delicious food is waiting for me, actually my tongue may start watering. So, that is also an experience.
Now, there is a mental experience and there is a spiritual experience. So, spiritual experience is what the soul experiences in relationship with Krishna. Now, that is the deepest longing of the human heart.
Now, if you see, expanding the mental experience is the fictional experience. Fiction can be in terms of novels, it can be in terms of movies, it can be in terms of video games. Now, in fiction, what do we do? We have an environment where we hope something enjoyable will happen.
So, for example, you can read some novels. Harry Potter movie is there, Harry Potter novel is there. So, what do we want to do over there? We want to experience some life.
And we experience that life by… Now, in our mind, we are playing all the characters. Oh, this character said this, this character did like that. You know, there is a fight over here.
Who is going to win? Oh, this has been stolen. Where will it be found? So, all this is experience at the mental level. So, what does happen? Normally, we imagine something.
But fiction means somebody else has imagined and created an imaginary world and we enter into it. So, when we do this, we want enjoyment. And that’s the reason why we do it.
Entertainment has been always there in the material world. Throughout all the ages, society always had some entertainers or the other. But in today’s age, entertainment has become almost like a compulsion.
We can understand what a society values most by seeing what a society pays for the most. If I consider something important, I will pay for it. If I consider something very important, I will pay a lot for it.
So, in today’s world, who are the people who get paid the most? What do you think? Who are the people who get paid the most? Yes, entertainers, sports stars, movie stars. Entertainers, they get paid phenomenally. Somebody who can heal a cut leg, that person doesn’t even get one-tenth of the salary as a person who can kick a ball with a leg.
So, why do we pay entertainers so much? That’s because we consider it so important. Now, why do we consider it so important? Because life is boring. In fact, the whole entertainment industry is called as the boredom industry.
People long for entertainment because real life is boring. Sometimes it is distressing, especially when problems come in our life. But on a routine level, life is boring.
Because if we live for sense pleasure, now sense pleasure cannot be enjoyed constantly. The body has limited capacity to enjoy. If I live to eat, my stomach itself is limited.
I can’t eat constantly. So, all the time when I am not eating, either I am longing when I will eat again, or I am just bored because there is nothing interesting to do. So, at the sensory level, life is basically boring.
Because sensual pleasure only comes intermittently. And if it is not there, then what to do? So, people desperately want relief from this boredom. And traditionally, whether it is Indian wisdom tradition or the western wisdom traditions, there is almost universally an understanding that there is another world, a higher world, which is what we are meant to attain.
So, you see here the physical experience and above that is the spiritual experience. So, people in the past also wanted to progress. But their progress was from physical level to the spiritual level.
But the defining difference between modern times and pre-modern times is not just in terms of science or technology. These are there. But the defining difference between modern times and pre-modern times is in terms of the acceptance or rejection of another world, beyond this world.
In pre-modern times, all people more or less accepted that this world is, as Jesus said, this world is like a bridge. Don’t build a house on a bridge. This is a transition place.
We have some other world to go to. But in modern times, the idea of some other world is rejected as mythology. This pre-scientific religious imagination.
And now, we have rejected the idea of any other world. But then, this world is basically boring. So, what do we do? We want some relief.
We want some stimulation. We want some pleasure. And then we direct that longing for pleasure towards a fictional world.
And that’s why the need for relief in a fictional world has become overwhelming in today’s society because the hope for relief at a spiritual level has been more or less rejected. So, compulsively, desperately, when people feel bored in their life, they just want some escape. And for that escape, they withdraw into a fictional world.
And that’s why novels, movies, video games, all these things which transport us to another reality, at least we experience at that time to be a reality, that is why people are so compulsively mad about that. People are ready to spend millions and millions of dollars for sports. In India, there is a cricket competition called Indian Premier League.
It just lasts for a month or less. But on that cricket competition, the money that is spent is enough to feed all the poor people of India throughout the year. Phenomenal amount of money is spent.
So, we get so emotionally fixated in entertainment that we are ready to spend astronomically for it. And not only are we ready to spend astronomically, we can get excited inordinately, we can get devastated also inordinately. So, people, if their favourite team loses, then, near India, there is Sri Lanka, and Sri Lanka, when it lost 2-3 times in some World Cup finals, there are several dozen Sri Lankan cricket fans who committed suicide.
Now, all that happened was they just lost a cricket match. What’s the big deal? The players did not commit suicide, but spectators committed suicide. Why is that? For the players, it is a job.
But for the spectators, it is an escape. Imagine, we go to a theatre to watch a movie, and we are told it’s a romantic movie. And instead of a romantic movie, it turns out to be a tragedy.
We expected a happily ever after, and everybody is crying at the end. We’ll get frustrated. So, like that, people get into entertainment, they watch sports because they want their team to win.
But when the team loses, they get frustrated. And if you look at sports, sports as an exercise, as an entertainment, is fine. But if we look at sports primarily as a source of pleasure, not just sports playing, sports playing is fine for health, but sports watching.
Say, in cricket, we have 16 countries which are playing the World Cup. In football, we may have more. Whatever it is.
Now, out of 16, only one is going to win. That means, at the end of it, 15 countries are going to be miserable. So, the net result is, actually, there’s going to be more misery than happiness.
Krishna says, the soul is transcendental. In 13.22, in the Bhagavad Gita, he says, the soul is transcendental, but the soul’s consciousness gets locked into material nature. Why? Because of the desire to enjoy.
But what happens in the process? One gets all kinds of various situations. Most of them end in distress. So, here, you see, physical experience is, as I said, boring.
And sometimes materialistic people accuse spiritualists. Now, you people, by chanting Hare Krishna, by worshipping Krishna, you’re escaping reality. You’re escapists.
You’re escapists. Actually, people who watch TV are also escapists. Isn’t it? I come back from office, or I come back from school, I’m tired, I’m bored, I just want some stimulation.
So, turn on the TV. And forget everything else. Get samadhi in TV.
Get some kind of relief, some kind of joy over there. So, the difference is, actually, when we try to go to the spiritual level, the spiritual level of experience is the highest reality. So, going from the physical to the spiritual is escapism.
But it is escape to reality. You’re escaping to a higher, more stimulating, more fulfilling reality. Whereas, when we go from the physical to the fictional, what are we doing? We’re escaping from reality.
So, physical reality is real. Spiritual reality is real. But spiritual reality is the eternal reality.
So, when we rise up from here to there, what are we doing? We’re escaping to a higher, more fulfilling reality. But when we go to the fictional world, what are we doing? We’re escaping from reality. So, the world is not very enjoyable.
So, I go into an entertainment world and imagine that it will be more enjoyable. So, essentially, we all want to escape. This world is not a very enjoyable place.
It may not always seem to be distressing, but most of the time, it’s not very exciting. It’s boring. So, the same drive, which, if it’s directed upward, takes us towards spirituality, when it’s directed elsewhere, when we reject spirituality, then it gets directed towards the fictional world.
And the more people turn away from God and reject God, the more compulsively they seek relief in some other world, created by their own imagination. That’s why entertainment has become such a great need for people today because life is boring and then they don’t have any conception of anything higher. So, they withdraw into the fictional world.
Now, we see the paradox. Some people come to the temple and if you… there’s one Narasimhadev, half man, half lion. See, this is imagination.
But then they’ll go home and watch a half man, a half bat. Or a half man and a half spider. So, what is happening? They say, this is imagination.
How can you believe such things? But they want entertainment. Basically, for the human heart, just rationality is not enough. They may talk, oh, be rational.
How can you believe in God? How can you believe in God doing this? Lifting up a mountain or those sort of things. It’s all imagination. We have Govardhan Puja coming up soon.
So, Krishna lifted Govardhan. How could you have done that? How could you believe anything like this? But then, they will watch cartoons and movies where there’s a big car that is moving and some spiderman comes along and pushes the car in the opposite direction. Or they do all sorts of superhuman things.
So, basically, attraction to the supernatural is natural to the human heart. Supernatural means something which is beyond the limitations of our daily experience. We want that.
And that’s why when people say, when we watch fiction or we read fiction, what it is said is, people have to suspend their disbelief. They suspend their disbelief and then they can enjoy it. As long as they are having that disbelieving attitude.
If we start watching any cartoon from a purely logical perspective, there will be hundreds of things which will not make sense. But the point is, cartoons, they don’t necessarily have to make sense. They have their own internal way of making sense.
But the point is, people want to escape. So, we have disbelief towards God. But then we end up having belief in something else.
Somebody may say, no, but actually I don’t believe Spiderman is real. I’m just having an entertainment. I don’t believe that Batman is real.
But it’s just for enjoyment. No, it may be for enjoyment. And I may say that I know it’s not real.
But when we are enjoying it, we actually get into that world. At least for that experience, if somebody is watching Batman or Spiderman or some other movie, are they constantly thinking, this is not real, this is not real, this is not real. No, if we are thinking like that, we will not be able to enjoy it at all.
So, we basically, at least for the period of that time, accept it to be reality. And the point here is not whether it is real or not. The point is, there is a real need within us.
There is a real need within us for something supernatural. And not getting it in the spiritual, we crave for it in the fictional. Now, somebody may say, okay, then what is the difference between… So, okay, you people believe in… I believe in a Batman.
I enjoy Batman. You enjoy a loyal man. So, it’s your choice.
This is my choice. I will enjoy what I want to enjoy. You enjoy what you want to enjoy.
So, is it that, say, something like a half-man, half-loyal or Narsimhadev and Batman, are they just two… On a similar level, you enjoy this, I enjoy that. This is a matter of choice. It’s a matter of taste.
This is some people’s imagination. And, say, Batman is some author’s imagination. Narsimhadev is some other author’s imagination.
You may… Somebody may say, it’s just your choice. But it’s not like that. There are three main differences between the fictional and the spiritual.
You have acronym triple E. Now, it’s exponents, explanation and experience. Exponents means, look at the people. Who are worshipping Lord Narsimhadev? And look at the people who are adoring Batman or Spiderman or whoever.
We’ll see that the people who are worshipping Narsimhadev, who are worshipping God, who does supernatural activities, they’re extremely intelligent, they’re extremely detached, they’re extremely selfless, and they are among the wisest people who have lived on this planet. And they’re not just creating a fantasy world for entertainment. If we look at their writings, there’s profound philosophy over there.
So, the calibre of these people is… Prabhupada writes, Shukadeva Swami has no interest when Parikshit Maharaj is about to die to tell some fairy tales. It’s a very serious business when someone is facing death. So, if we look at the calibre of the people who are exponents, they, for the object of their devotion, they’re ready to give up the whole world.
Parikshit Maharaj was a king who ruled the whole world. He gave it all for the sake of Krishna. On the other hand, most authors who create a fictional world, they create the fictional world to gain the real world.
Isn’t it? They create a fictional world so that they can make a lot of money. They can make millions of dollars. The most popular authors, creators of fictional characters, they become millionaires.
And that’s their goal. So, if we look at the character of the exponents of those who are talking about the supernatural supreme being, they are pure, they are selfless, they are intelligent, they are renounced. It’s a completely different level at which they are living.
Second is explanation. It’s not just, oh, you believe in this half man, half lion. There is a whole world view associated with it which gives explanation for life and its purpose.
The conception of God that is revealed is the result of a deeply thought world view which answers life’s fundamental questions. On the other hand, when we watch some fictional characters, there is no explanation of life. There is no deep thinking involved.
The only thing is stop thinking and start watching. So, there is no explanation. Okay, somebody might be in danger and some Batman, Spiderman may come and rescue that person.
But what after that? Okay, what is the purpose of life? What is the meaning of life? There is no explanation like that. So, when we talk about Krishna, there is a whole world view on which the conception of God is the summit. So, that’s the explanation.
Third is experience. Now, we may, somebody may say, oh, I watch Batman, Spiderman or whatever. I watch those movies and I enjoy.
Or I read their cartoons and I enjoy. Somebody else says, oh, you hear Krishnalaya and you enjoy. You see, both of us are enjoying.
The experience at one level of enjoyment may seem similar. But hearing Krishna’s pastimes, relishing Krishna’s pastimes is a categorically different experience in terms of the results it has. bhakti pareshanubhava viraktiranyatra ca When we experience Krishna, that experience is so joyful, it is so exciting, it is so fulfilling that we want it more and more and more.
So, what happens is, by the practise of Krishna bhakti, our consciousness gets elevated and gradually we start perceiving spiritual reality. That means, as our consciousness becomes spiritualised, we will rise to higher levels of consciousness and we will actually see Krishna. So, we can experience Krishna not just at the mental level by thinking about him, but as we get purified, we can experience Krishna one day.
Now, no matter how many Harry Potter or Batman or Spiderman novels or movies a person sees, no, there is no day going to come they are actually going to meet Batman or Spiderman or anything like that. No, because that’s completely fictional. So, there is a higher reality and hearing about Krishna takes us to that higher reality.
That’s why there is a huge difference. The fictional keeps us in illusion, whereas the spiritual takes us out of illusion. It’s the same longing for something exciting, which when directed towards the fictional world, keeps us entangled.
Now, here I conclude with two points. Somebody may say, how can you believe that Krishna lifted Govardhan? It’s irrational. How can a small boy lift a big mountain? So, somebody from a very scientific worldview may say, the mountain is so big, if you have to lift it, say, if I have to lift this book, then I have to put my finger, if I want to lift one finger, I have to put my finger right in the centre.
In physics, it is called the centre of gravity. So, I have to put my finger over there. So, somebody may ask, when Krishna had to lift up Govardhan hill, how did he find the centre of gravity? And how did he put his finger exactly there at the centre of gravity so that the hill was balanced? So, Krishna doesn’t need the centre of gravity because he is the source of gravity.
Source of gravity means that all the laws of material nature work by Krishna’s will. Material nature works under my supervision. So, when Krishna does fantastic activities, his activities are fantastic, but they are not fantasy.
They are not imaginary. They are real. And Krishna is able to, by his will, the law of gravity acts.
And by his will, when he wants the law of gravity, he can suspend. So, in that sense, when Krishna does miracles, the miracles are not against science. They are about science.
They are not against science. Science observes the laws of nature, observes the routine functioning of the world, and infers certain laws from those. And these are fine.
We accept that those laws do exist. Even the Vrajavasis, they also, it was not that they were just naive people who believed anything. After Krishna lifted it over them, the Vrajavasis went and asked Nanda Maharaj, Krishna is such a small child.
How could he have lifted such a big mountain? So, they also understood such a thing cannot be done. But, rather than rejecting it as imaginary, they were open to another explanation. And Nanda Maharaj said, actually Gargamuni told me that Krishna is as good as Narayana.
Narayana, he is very powerful. He can do whatever he wants. So, they were open for another explanation.
We accept science. It is not that we are against science. But, what we say is, God is not under science.
God is above science. And, so, when God decides to intervene, when he performs miracles, that is not against science. That is above science.
And, this leads us to the last point, the conclusion. You know, Krishna, when we talk about him, as a God who can do wonderful things, he is not irrational. He is trans-rational.
Rationality, and that which is rational, makes sense, logical. Something which doesn’t make sense is illogical. That is below logic.
But, Krishna, when he does activities, his pastimes, they are not below logic, they are above logic. He is transcendental to rationality. He is trans-rational.
And, for us, in our, when we try to understand Krishna’s pastimes, we use our intelligence, we use our logic, we use our reason. But, let reason be our minister, not our master. Minister means, we take advice from him.
Yes. Okay. What do you think about this? Minister gives advice.
Master means, we have to obey. So, we use our logical faculty, we use our reason, but we understand that Krishna is greater than reason. Jiva Goswami explains that there is no meaning of saying God is supreme if he has to be subordinate to our intelligence.
Then, the intelligence will become supreme. God will not remain supreme. So, God is superior to our intelligence.
And, thus, when we accept Krishna’s supremacy, then the extraordinary activities that he performs, they give great joy to the devotees. Because they feel, this is what my heart is always longing for. This is what will bring me enduring fulfilment.
Navanavara Sudhamanya Udyatam Rantam Asit Newer and newer mellows of ecstasy we will experience when we become attracted to Krishna. And that is what Srila Prabhupada has offered us through the books that he has written, throughout the movement that he has started, through the many devotees he has inspired. So, by directing our heart towards Krishna, our longing for excitement, our longing for enjoyment, it will be supremely fulfilled.
So, I’ll summarise. I spoke today about how the fictional points to the spiritual. And I started by talking about the four levels of consciousness.
The consciousness, when it comes through the mind to the body, it is Jagruti. When it comes to the mind, it is Swapna. When it stays in itself, it is Sushupti.
When it goes towards the spiritual, it is Turiya or Samadhi. So, in today’s world, people are mad for entertainment. The highest paid professionals are entertainers.
Why? Because we live at the physical level and at the physical level, life is basically boring. So, we want some excitement. And in the past, people accepted a higher world which was the aspiration of their life.
It is a spiritual reality. But instead of going from the physical to the spiritual, today, in the scientific worldview, people have rejected the spiritual. Now, because the human heart needs something more, it created a fictional world.
And we try to go into that and spend millions of dollars creating fictional worlds and try to enjoy those fictional worlds. But going from the physical to the spiritual is escape to reality. Because the spiritual is actually a reality.
Going from the physical to fictional is escape from reality. And the difference between… The same people who may reject half man, half lion, they adore a half man, half bat. Because the human heart, for it, longing for the supernatural is natural.
But we need to direct it in a fulfilling way. So, instead of escaping from reality, we want to escape to reality. And the difference between, say, a conception of a half man, half lion, which is given by the saints, and a half man, half bat, conceived by some fiction writers, is that, in terms of… What are three E’s? Does anyone remember? The difference? Exponents.
The saints are selfless, wise, deeply philosophical, concerned for everyone. Second E? Explanation. Thank you.
So, it explains life. Who are we? What is the purpose of our life? What is everything meant for? There is no such explanation when we watch fiction. And third is? Experience.
When we are worshipping Krishna, it’s not just, Oh, he is there, I am here, and that’s all there is. No, by worshipping Krishna we get purified, and we get rich spiritual experience of joy, and we rise higher and higher, till one day we can see Krishna. That is never possible with any fictional character.
So, when Krishna performs miracles, his miracles are not against science, they are above science. So, Krishna, it is by his will that the law of gravity acts, and by his will he can suspend the law. And thus, when we understand Krishna to be the supreme reality, then we see his extraordinary pastime not as irrational, but as trans-rational.
And the process of bhakti, we use our reason, our intelligence, our logical faculty, not as a master, based on whose dictate we believe or disbelieve, but as a minister, whose aid we use in our service to Krishna, in our learning about Krishna, in our loving Krishna. And then, our hearts longing for excitement will find its supreme fulfilment in Krishna. Thank you very much.
Hare Krishna. You talk about entertainment, and we need entertainment because we want to, you know, show our grace and just, you know. And then you give us spiritual entertainment.
The fact that spiritual entertainment, I mean, our grace, we don’t shut it off. Like you were saying, we use our logic. So, if you want to have entertainment, spiritual entertainment, you know, we sit down and read, you know, Krishna-Bhagavata, or whatever thoughtless books.
But, it’s not turning off our brain. Yeah, correct. So, it’s, it doesn’t, well, I’m just trying to hide a very high plaque of, I mean, sometimes when we’re with speakers, you know, we’ve got entertainment, but otherwise, you know, sitting down, you have to use your brain, you have to use your mind, something like that.
Okay, yeah. So, when we seek entertainment, we basically turn off our brains. But when we are seeking spiritual entertainment, at that time, we are using our brains.
So, yes, there are, there are two different things over here. When we talk about spiritual entertainment, bhakti is not just about reading some books. There’s a whole culture.
There’s a culture, Natya Shastra, there’s a whole genre of literature where dramas were performed. So, we had traditional Indian dances like Bharat Natyam and so many other things. So, basically, bhakti is not just emotional, it’s a philosophy.
It’s a whole culture centred on glorification of Krishna. And therein, we also use our intelligence. For example, even when somebody reads a fiction, there is some use of intelligence.
Okay, now, what will this, this character they’re tagging, what will this person do, what will this person do? People are excited. But that intelligence is directed within the purview of that world. So, and that intelligence doesn’t lead to any ultimate fulfilment.
So, in bhakti, depending on how different people’s inner world is made up of. Some people’s mind is stronger than intelligence. So, mind is more about feelings.
Some people’s intelligence is more stronger than the mind. That they want reasoning, logic. They want intellectual substance.
So, the bhakti culture gradually has to become so inclusive that different people’s needs are served within it. So, for example, if we have many devotees who perform dramas, we have devotees who write, who retell Krishna’s pastimes or the stories from the literature in a more contemporary, in an entertaining way. So, all this is actually ways in which people’s need for entertainment can be catered to within the bhakti circle.
So, as our tradition expands, as our movement expands, as our tradition becomes more vibrant all over the world, then more and more devotees will be creating these things. So, that way, both the intellectual and the emotional needs of people can be taken care of. So, when we study philosophy, definitely at that time, it’s primarily the intellectual faculty that we focus on.
When we hear pastimes, it’s primarily the emotional faculty. We want to connect with Krishna. That’s what we focus on.
But in the philosophy also, there is some amount of emotion because the philosophy is about love, about bhakti. And in the pastimes, there is analysis. The acharya has to do analysis.
So, basically, different people’s needs can be taken care of by presenting bhakti in an appropriately adapted way. Does that answer your question? There are different stages of Alzheimer’s. So, Alzheimer’s disease.
So, what reality are they escaping into? Okay. So, when people get something like Alzheimer’s and they escape from their physical reality, so what reality are they escaping to? It’s not so much an escape in that case as it is an impairment. Impairment means it’s a limitation.
It’s like, say, if something very terrible is happening around me, I may close my eyes. I don’t want to see what is happening. Or, somebody may be blind and they can’t see what is happening.
So, in the case of brain degenerative diseases like Alzheimer’s, the consciousness which comes from the soul, it comes through the mind to the body and it needs the body in a working condition to be channelled. So, if my eyes are blind, then I can’t see, although I, the soul, have a capacity to see. So, like that, when people’s brain starts getting degenerated as it happens in, say, Alzheimer’s, then the brain does not function properly and the consciousness does not get channelled through the brain to the outer world.
So, in that case, what they experience is a mixed jumble of something perceived from the sensory world and something which is experienced at the mental level. So, often they live in their memories or they may have alternate perceptions. So, that is basically, the consciousness is caught at the mental level and there is some consciousness coming out at the physical level.
But it’s primarily at the mental level and a little from the physical level, which they conflate and then they just live in their own world. Sometimes, when they have moments of lucidity, that means, that time the brain is functioning properly and the consciousness is coming out to the physical level. So, I wouldn’t call people who are having Alzheimer’s as escaping because usually it is not done by one’s free will.
It is something which is forced upon a person because they, because their brain doesn’t function properly. Of course, some people may may want to live in that world. There is one famous well-known mental health doctor.
He said that when he goes and treats people who are in the mental health care units, sometimes he feels that those people are happier than people in the outside world. So, should I be treating them or not? But the problem is that they may be happier there but that’s not reality. It’s temporary.
Somebody may say, okay, we can say the physical reality is also ultimately not reality. It’s temporary. So, people live in their own mind.
That is also unreal. This is also unreal. No, but the difference is, in the physical reality, we can use our free will, practise bhakti and rise to spiritual reality.
In the mental reality, we can’t do that. So, that’s why, the physical realities, the difference between swapna and jagruti is that in jagruti, we can use our swetcha. We can use our free will to turn towards higher meaning, towards Krishna ultimately.
So, Alzheimer’s and other brain degenerative diseases are not so much escaping as being cut off by the brain’s dysfunctionality. Does that answer your question? So, I was sitting here. So, I was chanting here for about 2-3 hours while she was in surgery.
So, I wasn’t aware of it but the moment she started chanting Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna and she was chanting and I stopped and I listened and I said, oh, the chanting and then she said, no I just want to hear you chant which is making me feel unhappy. And so, I had to go back and see my sister the next day and the nurse told me she was chanting this thing all year long waiting for you to come back. She had been doing it her whole life, she was just saying Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna.
And then she said that was the first time she actually related to the world, you know. She won’t listen for anything they say, but after that she was actually amazed at the way she was chanting. So, when I was just saying some consciousness, so you know, I am trying to understand the difference between spirituality and spiritual consciousness.
So, say, if people are not having some Alzheimer’s can they connect with the holy name or can they perceive Krishna? Yes. See, from our perspective, from the Vedic perspective, unconsciousness is also a state of consciousness. And when a person is unconscious, that doesn’t mean consciousness is lacking.
It simply means consciousness is not manifested at the physical level. But consciousness is also existing. It’s still existing.
So, unconsciousness is also a state of consciousness. And there is some perception at the physical level also. The soul is here, the mind is here, the body is here.
Now the soul’s consciousness is coming to the mind and it is coming to the level of the body to some extent. But it is not coming out so much that the person can perceive coherently or function coherently. But at that time, if one hears about Krishna, then that always benefits.
That always benefits. Because the soul is still conscious. When the soul hears about Krishna, then sometimes hearing about Krishna will always benefit spiritually, but sometimes it can even benefit materially in terms of, because there is some connection with reality happening, because the soul is perceiving that spiritual sound.
The sound is spiritual, but it is coming to them through the physical channel. And when one feels some shelter, one feels calmed, at that time, one may feel more able to connect with physical reality. So, we wouldn’t recommend that as a substitute for medical treatment.
Medical treatment is essential if that can be used to get the brain to be stabilised better. But irrespective of medical treatment, whether it works or not, the treatment of hearing spiritual sound vibration, that even if the person is not consciously responsive at that time, the person is being benefited. So, some devotees call this as Namo therapy.
You know, therapy of the holy name. So, that always works in the spiritual realm. Yes, please.
Thank you for this wonderful class. I just want to reiterate what you are saying about the craving for this entertainment in the world, the craving for the supernatural. It is cyclical in nature because the people who are craving it are going to go to this entertainment, and the people who are making the entertainment are going to exploit it.
And then it is going to increase exponentially with the whole industry building, building up. But this exploitation of the wealth that can be made through the entertainment is also going to lead to exploitation and manipulation so that ideas are put into the entertainment that can change the minds of young people and even adults. So, it is kind of like the analogy of the computer.
The human mind made the computer. On a mental level, the human mind made the computer. The computer has similarities to the human mind.
So, garbage in, garbage out is the other thing. So, we put ourselves into the entertainment and we see these aliens and monsters and zombies and these things that are making our heart beat faster, making us nervous, making us a little hyper. And then we think, oh, this is really good, entertaining.
To be scared and to be completely nervous, then what happens later? We put that inside us into our mental state. How does that mental state affect us later for going towards the spiritual state? So, this, I think, is a very important subject for all people, not just young people. So, I thank you very much for bringing it.
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