The point of this world is to point beyond this world

Bhagavatam class at ISKCON, Alachua

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
Oṁ jñānati mirandhasya jñānānjuni-śalākāyā cakṣurūṇa-militaṁ yena tasmai śrī-gurave namah namā’oṁ viṣṇu-pādāya kṛṣṇa-priṣṭāya bhūtale śrīmate bhakti-vedānta svāmi iti nāmine namaste sārasvati deve gauravāni prachārine nirviśeṣa śūnyavādi pāśyātya-deśa-tārine vāñchā kalpata-rūbhyasya kṛpā-sindhubhyayaivaśya patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo kṛṣṇa-vibhyo namo namah jay śrī kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda śrī advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare Hare Kṛṣṇa blessing the blessings of all the devotees that i can try to speak something on the bhāgavatam so this verse is talking about a consistent theme in the bhāgavatam about how this world is a place of misery and how the devotees transcend that misery so what i’ll be speaking i’ll summarize in one sentence and i’ll elaborate this the point of this world is to point beyond this world the point of this world the point of all of material existence is to draw our consciousness to somewhere beyond this material existence now if this understanding is not there then life in this world doesn’t make sense it doesn’t make sense from the material perspective and it doesn’t make sense even from the religious perspective from the material perspective the idea is that this world is all that there is and we are here to enjoy in this world and yes we may get some enjoyment but at any moment the enjoyment can be terminated there can be some accident there can be death there can be fatal diseases and not only can death take away the enjoyment or the glory that one has acquired even before that some reversal can come and take it away and this is a fact that even materialistic people know the history of material civilization if we see there have been big civilizations which have been wiped away within just a moment so the now the facts of life are what they are but depending on the modes that we are in we respond to those facts differently so i answer questions on my website thespiritualscientist.com so when Mataji asked this question over there he said that you know i came to a Hare Krishna lecture and there i heard how we should always think about death and after ever since that i heard that now i always i become very paranoid and since my childhood i was always having a lot of worrying nature i used to always be fearful and then ever since i started thinking that death can come at any time i have become very paranoid and when i went to my doctor my psychologist he told me that hearing such classes is psychologically damaging and you should not hear such classes if you want to stay mentally healthy so then she asked this question is it that hearing the Bhagavad Gita is psychologically damaging so when i explain that actually the facts of life are there now our response to those facts of to the those facts of life okay okay thank you so our response to those facts of life depends on the mode in which we are situated so for example the same fact is there say youth is temporary now spiritualists will say youth is temporary why waste your life in enjoyment that is going not going to last on the other hand materialists will look at the same fact youth is temporary therefore enjoy before you lose that opportunity so i saw an advertisement it says enjoy before you become a dirty old man it was an advertisement in Kolkata i saw so the fact is the same that we are all going to grow old get deceased Shila Prabhupada says in a lecture that he says material nature is going to make everyone old and nobody can do anything about it so the same fact of the temporariness of youth can be perceived differently by people in goodness and above and people in passion so people in passion will think i must enjoy immediately and people in goodness will think what is the point of enjoying if it’s all temporal the same way with respect to death when we hear that this world is a place where death can come at any time the purpose of that statement is to direct our consciousness towards the deathless realm towards the world beyond death and this is possible to the extent we are in sattva guna if we are in tamo guna then basically sattva guna means one has some detachment from material nature at least some knowledge by which one is not obsessed with the constant changes and promises and troubles of material nature in passion one wants to enjoy the material nature as much as possible and in ignorance there is largely an inability to enjoy even material things because even to enjoy material nature one has to have some capacity some intelligence some energy some hard work by which they can get the resources to enjoy so in lighter when it is said that there are three kinds of people some people make things happen some people watch things happen and some people wonder what happened so you’re going to say roughly correlate this with goodness passion and ignorance so people in ignorance are already powerless what is happening this is happening that is happening that is happening and paranoia a constant fearfulness in 18.35 in the Bhagavad Gita Krishna says that constant fearfulness moroseness pessimism worrying daydreaming all these are characteristics of determination in the mode of ignorance so that means if somebody has a habitual mentality to worry to be fearful and if they hear about how death can come anytime that knowledge will not elevate them that will increase their paranoia and for them the thinking that death can come anytime that will make them paranoid it can be psychologically damaging for them now the point is the central teaching of the Bhagavad Gita is not that we have to think of death constantly the central teaching is that we try to think of Krishna constantly and thinking of death is meant to assist us in thinking of Krishna by reminding us of the temporality of everything other than Krishna so the thinking about death when a person has come to goodness when we understand okay there is material nature and there is something beyond material nature then why should I think about this world get caught up in this world then one can think about the world beyond otherwise even in our own tradition there is the concept of Smashan Vairagya that Prabhupada talks about Smashan Vairagya means that when we go to a crematorium and there we see somebody has died at that time there is some detachment that comes but that detachment has not come because of some realization of higher spiritual reality that detachment has come simply because of the experience of the temporariness of material nature and if one does not know anything higher then again one will relapse back to the material enjoyment itself so Smashan Vairagya means that when one goes to a crematorium there is some temporary renunciation but after that after a few days again life goes back to normal people start thinking about the same material plan making material enjoyment that’s because there is no higher awareness so frustration is not the qualification for devotion frustration might be a initial starting point to start devotional inquiry but it will not sustain one frustration is there because of which one may look for something else but then again material nature will promise some opportunities and one will return back to material enjoyment so i was talking all this in connection that from the material perspective even if one recognizes that this life is temporary that the world is temporary still people don’t think of anything higher necessarily so ultimately the life just doesn’t make sense okay some people life becomes like a lottery universe becomes like a lottery and some people are winners some people are losers some people are wealthy some people are good-looking some people have the assets for enjoying and some people don’t so it’s a very it’s a very cruel vision of life which often leads to insecurity and misery so if we are if our vision is glued only to this world then life doesn’t really make sense if we are materialistic now even if we are religious but we don’t have an understanding of the higher world then also it is difficult to reconcile the miseries of this world with the goodness of god if god is good then why are there so many miseries in life why do so many things go wrong and so the point of this world is to point beyond the world if that understanding of pointing beyond the world is not there and we expect that okay that god will arrange everything to go nicely in my life in this world then even our faith in god can get shaken or shattered if things go wrong in this world so devotion is not necessarily a protection from things going wrong in this world even for a devotee devotion is a protection from our responding wrongly when things go wrong devotion makes sure that we choose the wisest response and thereby we minimize the miseries so it’s like if i am if i’m bitten by a snake if i get angry and try to chase after the snake to beat and kill the snake in that process i am only accelerating my heartbeat increasing the blood flow in my body and the poison will reach my heart and brain faster and i will die faster so what bhakti does is that it helps us to avoid such knee-jerk responses but miseries will come in everyone’s lives that is the nature of the material world and recognizing this is wisdom i said earlier about how the if we have materialistic worldview then life in this world doesn’t make any sense so there were existentialist philosophers in the second half of the 20th century so one of them said life is misery therefore the only philosophical question worth asking is whether to commit suicide today or tomorrow and his whole philosophy is don’t commit suicide today that’s all so there’s no point to life ultimately and when we when we have a religious conception of life but we don’t have the understanding and the world beyond which is the ultimate goal then also our faith in god can be shaken when we see problems in life and problems in our life or problems in other devotees lives so to understand the nature of the world to understand this point of the point of the world is to point beyond this world i’ll talk first analytically and then i talk a little philosophically so analytically if we see we can look in the world and see evidences of both one kind of evidence we see is there is tremendous artistry delicacy beauty in nature and this if we think objectively cannot have come by chance it has to have some higher governing intelligence and that points towards god this is not conclusive evidence for an atheist this will not work as evidence but for a person who is looking for a theistic worldview this can contribute to the evidence in the vedanta sutra the third sutra is that shastra that if you want to know about god that’s the first second is and third is and if you want to know about brahma the way to know about brahma is through shastra we can arrive at some inference about the existence of absolute truth but positive knowledge about the absolute truth has to come from shastra in fact ramacharya and this kind of commentary to shastra he actually uses this to contradict the design argument he says the design argument is used to say from the from the design in this world we can point to the existence of a designer and he’s using that as strategy his point is not to reject the design argument per se his point is to say that if you want to know about god we have to rely on shastra we can make some inference towards the existence of god by looking at the world but a counter inference can also be made what is the counter inference we can say that okay there is so much design in this world and it points to the existence of god but then somebody can argue yes we see so much so much misery in this world and misery is also a part of the package of this world okay we see our body is so well designed and the hand the ears the eyes the throat all their mechanism is so so complex so certain that it could not have come by chance but then if you look at it from medical point of view somebody can say it’s also vulnerable also every part of the body can come to disease so somebody can argue yes this has been designed but this has been designed by a cruel designer because it all gives misery every part of the body can give misery and the purport for that is analyzed that every element of material existence can give misery the same mind which enables us to think about things that same mind can make us think about harmful things and make us miserable the same intelligence that can help us go go towards higher reality that can drag us down towards rationalizing sin and wrongdoing so the say so uh so ramacharya explains that somebody can infer from the evidence of this world we can see design in this world but we can also see misery in this world and both of them are undeniable facts of the world so one could infer from this combination of design and misery that the world has been designed by a designer who wants to make us miserable and therefore the designer is evil so this inference is of course wrong and why it is wrong is because it considers this world to be like a closed system this world is considered to be the sole pointer or sole basis for understanding the nature of the designer and then we can come to wrong inferences but if we go from shastra we will see that this world is a place of misery but there is a world beyond now these two things where we see misery and where we see design where do we see these things both of them together one is in a prison in a prison things are designed properly now every prisoner has their selves everybody has a system by which they will get food they have some work to do there is order there but along with that there is an overall context of misery so that is how this world can be understood just because there is design doesn’t mean that everything is chaotic or the designer is evil this world is like as we said durga durga is a fort, fort not meant for defense this is a fort which is meant to incarcerate to imprison now every metaphor that we use it has some it no metaphor can convey the absolute truth completely so the prison metaphor conveys that just as people are put in prison because they have done something wrong and they need to do something right to get out of prison similarly the prison metaphor here conveys that we have to do something we have to change ourselves and by changing ourselves we can be released from the prison but the prison metaphor itself does not directly point to the benevolence of god is god the jail keeper who has put all of us in jail no i’ll come to that later but we can take another metaphor where we can understand god’s benevolence another place where we will see design and suffering together is a hospital in a hospital everything is well designed you know every every patient has their own bed and there are proper plans for you know what what medicine to give what treatment to take what surgery to do what injection to give everything is well planned but still in the hospital there is misery so now if we see in the hospital there is misery but the purpose of the hospital is not misery misery is a fact of the hospital but misery is not the purpose of the hospital similarly if we see of this world misery is a fact of this world but misery is not the purpose of this world and that is pointed to in 8.15 the bhagavad gita the verse which shila prabhupada would often quote so now if we see this verse itself we usually highlight these two words this world is temporary and it is miserable now if we look at the verse itself the stress of this verse is not the stress of this verse is those who worship me those who worship me they will not take birth in this world again which is a temporary and place of misery but they will attain my eternal abode because they will attain the supreme destination so that means the gita’s emphasis is not that this world is a place of misery or that this is temporary because the emphasis in this verse is that we can go beyond this temporary miserable world by practicing bhakti so that means that krishna is giving us a method by if we follow which we will be able to rise beyond the misery of this world so god is not the cause of the world’s misery god is the cure for the world’s misery it is not krishna who is causing the world’s misery just like in a hospital the doctor is not the cause of the patient’s sickness the doctor is the cure for the patient’s sickness similarly krishna is not causing the miseries of this world it is now at one level we say krishna is the cause of all causes but when we say cause of all causes there are different kinds of causes so krishna is the sanctioning cause he is not the initiating cause for the misery of this world the vedanta sutra gives the example that say if rains fall and then vegetation grows on the ground now in some places fruits may grow in some places crops may grow in other places weeds may grow now nothing could have grown if the rains hadn’t fallen but the rains are not responsible for the growth of the weeds if a particular place weeds are growing you can’t say oh the rains are so bad they cause the weeds to grow the seeds were there of the weeds were there and that’s how the weeds grew over there so the rains are not the initiating cause the initiating cause was already there were the seeds of the weeds in the ground and that’s how they grew the rain simply made the facilitation they sanctioned it by which the weeds could grow so similarly when misery comes in this world krishna is the cause of all causes in the sense that krishna sanctions the misery but the cause in the sense of the initiating cause is our own karma and that’s how actually when we can separate this god is the cause of all causes but all causes are not of the same nature the misery of this world is not caused by god it is coming from our own karma and krishna sanctions it by the law of karma but krishna’s kindness is that he arranges for that misery to come in such a way that we can get realization so the point of this world in the point of even the misery in this world is to prompt us to look somewhere beyond this world the prabhupada writes in a shopanishad purport that the miseries of material existence serve indirectly to remind us of our incompatibility with matter so the miseries of material existence serve indirectly to remind us of our incompatibility with matter now usually the word compatible is used in marriages now when there is a compatible match or incompatible match so incompatibility means two things don’t fit together so the spirit and matter they do not fit together they are not compatible the soul is spiritual and the soul needs to be connected with the supreme spiritual reality krishna and the incompatibility of the spirit with matter that is what the miseries of material existence remind us of so again the point of this world the point of even the miseries of this world is to remind us of the world beyond this world the point of this world is to point beyond this world to remind us of krishna to remind us of krishna’s eternal abode where we are meant to go and to the extent our vision shifts towards the other world to that extent we can both tolerate the miseries of this world as well as respond appropriately to them now when miseries come at one level sometimes there’s just nothing we can do about them so just like right now the storm is going on so to some extent if the power goes off if we are locked in our houses or whatever just have to accept it that is some some miseries are such are such a big scale that they just have to be tolerated but at the same time the spiritual response to misery is not just tolerance yes tolerance is one aspect of it but if you consider say the fourth canto of shrimad bhagavatam where prithu maharaj is told by his citizens that there is a famine in the kingdom we are all starving and we don’t know what to do please help us there’s no relief that you can find so at that time prithu maharaj doesn’t say now you are getting realization this world is dukkhale good take this realization no when somebody is miserable at that time if we have the power if we have the resources then we need to help them and prithu maharaj is the king so the king’s responsibility is also to take care of people materially now if you see there are these two centers of power in vedic culture that the brahmanas and the kshatriyas the brahmanas give spiritual knowledge and brahmanas stress on spiritual solutions the kshatriyas they focus on material welfare but they provide material welfare in a context that is conducive for spiritual growth and that is why we have two different ethos there’s a brahmana ethos and there is a kshatriya ethos when a brahmana is insulted the brahmana they recommend to tolerate and forgive where kshatriyas if they are insulted if they are dishonored then they often respond aggressively and that is not just that aggressive response is not just because they are revengeful sometimes if somebody is doing wrong some disciplinary action needs to be taken against them otherwise they will keep doing more and more wrong so when at the start of the bhagavad gita arjuna says i will not fight when he says in 1.9 that i will not fight the problem the problem there is that he’s a kshatriya but he’s choosing a brahmanical response he says let me not fight let me not fight against my relatives krishna says no you cannot do this you have to fight so both aspects are there that is as a brahmana brahmana has to tolerate whatever problems come in life and in the bhagavad gita if you look at the qualities of brahmana kshatriya vaisya shudra brahmana it is said ahimsa one of the qualities is peacefulness tolerance forgiveness shanti in contrast is the next verse this is 18.42 18.43 says that the qualities of a kshatriya what are they one of the qualities is if there is a fight one doesn’t flee from the fight one fights so the brahmana ethos is even if there is provocation just tolerate be peaceful forgive the kshatriya ethos is there is a challenge don’t step back fight it so both are two different attitudes and both are essential for the administration of dharma so the brahmanas primarily demonstrate the focus on the other world okay whatever happens is tolerated and focus on the other world but everybody cannot do that the kshatriyas have to create a system by which people can live in a way by which they can focus on the other world kshatriyas focus on material welfare also material welfare for the purpose of facilitating spiritual welfare and that’s why say when there are when there are miseries at one level the one response is okay tolerate the misery but at another level we also help in countering the misery we do what we can at a practical level to help in minimizing the misery and as devotees you know we are primarily the brahmanas nor kshatriyas we are vaishnavas and the vaishnava mood of yukta vairagya is that whatever can be used in krishna’s service we use it so sometimes when the miseries are overwhelming and unavoidable we may adopt the kshatriya response sorry the brahmana response tolerate so we just tolerate chant Hare Krishna and remember krishna and direct the consciousness towards the spiritual level but at other times when there are facilities there are opportunities to do something practical to to change things in the world we know that ultimately this world is going to be a place of misery but that does not mean that we have to just let everything stay miserable the whole system of material administration is to make misery as less as possible so that people can focus on spirituality if there is constant anxiety of everything material then people cannot focus on spirituality so the system of metal organization is also required but the problem with materialistic civilization is that it it imagines that just better systems of material organization themselves will solve all problems that is the illusion so material material organization is helpful if that can create some environment of order by which we can focus on spiritual growth but if material organization itself is thought as the solution then it becomes a source of greater illusion the ishwapisha says that vidya that it says those who are in knowledge they those who are in ignorance they go into darkness those who are in so-called knowledge they go into deeper darkness so so if we have material knowledge and we use the material knowledge to think that to propagate the idea that everything will become wonderful if we just improve things material then actually that is a greater illusion actually prabhupada would strongly condemn that actually prabhupada says in one lecture prabhupada was asked once that there is so much material advancement so prabhupada says okay you had a castor oil lamp now you have electric lamp but what essential difference has made yes there is intelligence which is there in transforming a castor oil lamp into electric lamp but what essential difference has been made ultimately this world is still a place of missing so if all the intelligence is directed only for this purpose of making things better at the material level that is a misdirection of the intelligence but if it’s understood that we have to pursue a goal beyond this world and for pursuing that goal we need some stability we need some order in this world and for that purpose some attempts are made to make bring orderliness in this world then things will be much better so you know i’ll conclude with one point that to on my website i was asked this question that you say that actually you know whenever there are natural calamities like this so quite often natural calamities some storms tornado cyclones they come so in india quite often the casualties are more than in america or in the western world and one reason is that the prediction systems are much better in place the prediction mechanisms are much better in place i remember at one place there was a big flood and when the flood came the government official was supposed to give alert before they opened the dam but unfortunately the bureaucracy was so great that the dam water came before the alert came it was terrible now this is not to criticize india but the point is if the material systems of organization are not there in place then things can become unnecessarily chaotic so we need even material systems of organization it is not that they are not required but the idea that they alone will solve the problems even with the best systems of organization still material world is going to a miserable place we cannot avoid miseries so if the material systems of organizations are meant to organize things so that one can pursue the growth of spiritual awareness pursue the growth of krishna consciousness then they are anukun if not they become pratikun and they can actually perpetuate the illusion that in future things will become all right if we just make things better material but that is never going to happen because this world is intrinsically temporary and the way we remind ourselves of this is not primarily by remembering the temporariness of this world yes we do remember that but our primary focus is on remembering krishna as it is the bhagwat pradhana is focused on krishna that person is not bewildered by the miseries of this world because they know this is the nature of this world but we have to focus on krishna and that focus on krishna helps us to move steadily onwards whether there is happiness in this world or there is misery in this world so i’ll summarize then we can have comments i started by focusing on the theme that the point of this world is to point beyond this world and if we don’t consider some world beyond this world then this world itself doesn’t make any sense i talk from the material perspective that life is just a cruel lottery some people are winners some people are losers some people have all the good things and they enjoy and suddenly all those things can also go away at any moment so life has no meaning if we just look at it from the material perspective and if from the if we have a spiritual perspective or a religious perspective where we have faith in god but if god is simply a add-on to the material conception of life that means there is not really a spirit understanding of the spiritual world if god is just an add-on to the material conception of life then things still don’t add on you can’t figure out things why would a good god allow bad things to happen in this world why would god good god allow so much cruelty so i discussed two points in this that now how if we just think about death then depending on the mode we are in if we are in tamoguna just thinking about death can make us paranoid and can damage your psychologically also if we are in rajoguna thinking about death will make us think that okay before i lose everything let me enjoy but if in satvaguna then we can oh this world is temperate let me think of something beyond this world and okay so we need to be in goodness to be able to make the thinking about the temperance of this world anukul to thinking about krishna and then we discussed about how from the world itself we can see evidence of design and we can see evidence of misery also so some people so the design argument can be used to encourage people towards god but it is not a conclusive argument i can to know conclusively about god we have to refer to shastra otherwise by the design argument somebody can also misinfer that there is a cruel designer who has set this world up for misery and we so the places where we see both design and misery together are a prison and a hospital the prison metaphor conveys that we are meant to we need to change something in ourselves to come out of the prison to come out of misery and the hospital metaphor conveys that god is not the cause of the misery of this world he’s the cure of the misery even when you say that god is the cause of all causes when it comes to the misery he is not the initiating cause he’s a sanctioning cause they said the rain doesn’t cause weeds the seed is shown over there cause weeds and then we discussed about once we understand that the point of this world is to point beyond this world how do we live there are two responses the brahmana response is whatever goes wrong tolerate it and focus on spiritual growth the kshatriya response is now make systems of material welfare by which people can peacefully focus on spiritual growth and we see this in Pruthumara’s response that he arranged for his citizens food requirements so that they could get over the famine and we as Vaishnavas we can choose the brahmana response or the kshatriya response based on what is uncool for our bhakti whether it’s for our own practice preaching or our practice or our preaching and then I conclude by talking about how if the material systems of organization are not there then the same natural disaster can cause much greater problems so it’s not that material systems of organization are not important they are important but if they are thought themselves to be the solution to all problems then that becomes a greater illusion because people don’t even think about spirituality so if the material organization is done so that people can focus on spiritual growth then there is a harmony by which we can live peacefully in this world and move onwards towards Krishna and the Bhagwat Pradhan and the serious devotees by focusing their vision on Krishna they can tolerate both misery and a pleasure in this world and move on towards Krishna. Thank you very much. Any comments, corrections, questions? One is three, there is a verse in the 9th chapter where Prabhupada describes different relationships, different paths that Krishna has with the devotees.
And then he says the tribulation of devoting to those is another transcendental path of devotion. Actually in this instance, it seems to be, I can’t exactly remember now how it goes after that, but Krishna is arranging his difficulties to the devotees, to the people, to the shelter of his dear friends. And so, though he sees it in this way, it’s actually Krishna taking charge of his karma.
Okay, I did not sense in the past, and then I reversed the suffering. It’s actually Krishna that is taking that and using it in such a way that I can make spiritual advancement. Then, processing the whole thing can be much easier.
You see Krishna’s hand behind it. And that’s an understanding that I have. I understand, yeah.
So, Prabhupada says that even the miseries of a devotee are reciprocation of rasa with the Lord. And if we see that our problems are being that Krishna has taken charge of our karma, and thereby we can actually process, go through the whole suffering in a more devotional way, and move on towards Krishna. So, to say that Krishna is not the cause of our suffering, is that right? Actually, yeah, I would say that the mind is very tricky.
And basically, by living in this world, we have to learn to out trick the tricky mind. So, what way of thinking will work best will vary at different times. That means, to first just give another example from a different context.
And how we need to, we need to find out some way to keep moving towards Krishna by out tricking the mind. So, say if, His Holiness Bhaktivedanta Maharaj has asked this question once that, if we are preaching somewhere and people are not very enthusiastic. So, we also don’t feel enthusiastic to speak.
So, what should we do at that time? So, Maharaj said that you should think that this preaching is your practice for the future preaching, where people are going to be enthusiastic. So, now, of course, we could say, you know, we are not preaching for the people. We should be preaching simply for Krishna’s pleasure.
Prabhupada is hearing, Krishna is hearing. But sometimes, just the mind doesn’t accept that. So, we have to find some way to out trick the mind by which we can go on in our service to Krishna.
So, having said that, now, when we face misery, now, the mind can actually sometimes make us antagonistic to Krishna. So, if I think Krishna is causing this misery, in the sense that Krishna has taken charge of my karma and Krishna is causing this misery, then there is, at one level I can say, yes, Krishna is there and Krishna is in charge. The karma is not coming by chance.
And that can make me take shelter of Krishna more. But it can also work out sometimes that, you know, okay, Krishna knows I am going through so much misery. Why is Krishna not doing anything to minimize it? Why is Krishna not doing anything to practically help me? And when that question comes, it can be very difficult to take shelter of Krishna.
So, I would say, it’s anukulyasa sankalpa pratikulyasa varjanam. So, whatever understanding helps us to take shelter of Krishna, that is the understanding that we have to take. So, if at one level, at a transcendental level, we could say that, in India, often people put a Gita saar in various shops.
So, one of the statements in the Gita saar is, Jo hua, wo achcha hua. Jo ho raha hai, wo achcha ho raha hai. Jo hone wala hai, wo bhi achcha hi hoga.
The saying is, what happened, that was good. What is happening, that is good. What will happen, that is also good.
Now, I mean, I have read the Bhagavad Gita dozens of times. I have never found any words like this. Which says anything like this.
But, the point is that, the Gita’s teaching is not so much analyzing the nature of what happens. The Gita’s focus is on analyzing how we should respond. So, if we look at the Mahabharata, of which the Gita is a part, say, when Draupadi is disrobed, and afterwards she goes through terrible mortification, and then, when they are going to the forest, they have gone to the forest, at that time Krishna comes to meet her.
And Krishna doesn’t tell her, whatever happened is for good. This was terrible. If I had known this was happening, I would have come and stopped the gambling match from taking place.
But, he reassures her, saying that, you are a chaste lady, everything will work out right. He consoles her. Krishna doesn’t take the attitude that everything that happens, happens for good.
What happened was bad. But, rather than saying that everything that happens is good, it is more philosophically appropriate to say that, everything that happens is for good. It is not itself good.
In this world, bad things can happen. But, it can be for a good purpose. If we choose a good response.
Say, somebody’s child or spouse or loved one suddenly dies. It is practically impossible for them to think at that time, it is good. Now, it is at an objective level, to suddenly lose a loved one is bad.
But, good can come from it. If we respond properly to it. So, now, having said this from the point of view of the mind, now we have to find out which is the way in which we can take shelter of Krishna.
So, it is like this suffering is coming by my own karma, and Krishna is there to give me shelter. So, if this is the attitude that helps us to take shelter of Krishna, that is fine. But, this is from the point of view of our mind’s perspective.
From the perspective of what is the reality, the reality is twofold. One is that sufferings come by our own past karma. But, for a devotee, Krishna takes charge of the karma, as you said.
And, Krishna arranges for the sufferings to come in a way, that can draw the devotee towards Krishna. So, the sufferings will come for a devotee, but along with the sufferings will come some realizations, will come some insights, will come some solace from maybe other devotees, from other sources, which will ensure that the suffering takes the devotee towards Krishna. So, philosophically, it is true that whatever suffering is coming, it is coming by our karma, which is under Krishna’s control.
But, usually speaking, when it comes about philosophy, usually we don’t say ever, at least I have not seen anywhere, what is the answer to the problem of evil? The problem of evil, why do bad things happen to good people? Nobody ever says that God is the cause of evil. It is because material nature is the cause, God is the sanctioner, ultimately. So, we don’t say that God is the cause of evil.
It is, if you look at the whole Bhishma’s verses, Bhishma first starts saying that, aho kashyam aho anya yam yadivyam dharmanandana How unfortunate that for you who are so virtuous, such a terrible thing happened. And then he goes on and analyzes various causes. And finally he says, his plan is inconceivable.
We just follow his plan. So, he is not saying so much that, so whatever has happened is by his plan. But he is not saying that he is the cause of everything.
So, I mean, I would say from the philosophical perspective, there is a separation between material nature and Krishna. And sufferings are, generally the way we describe in our philosophy, sufferings are caused by material nature. And Krishna is beyond material nature and Krishna invites us to go beyond material nature.
Now for a devotee these two become combined. Because devotee is directly under the control of Krishna. So, we could say that the sufferings are arranged by Krishna.
But when we say arranged by Krishna, there has to be that caution that it is not that Krishna is somehow, for some reason, manufacturing some karmic reaction for a devotee to suffer. It is the devotee themselves, we have also done something wrong. But Krishna has arranged that in a context by which we can move closer to him.
So, I would summarize this in two parts. It’s a complex thing. First is that ultimately we have to find out that way of looking at suffering which helps us to move closer towards Krishna.
So, if we can see that Krishna is sending the suffering in my life to reform me and that inspires us to become more devoted to Krishna, that is fine. Just like if Prabhupada gives the example that if a mother beats the child, if the child understands the mother’s love and says, okay, mother wants my reformation and that’s why I am being disciplined like this, then that is Anukun. But sometimes, this example is fine, but in the real world when suffering comes, it is very difficult to see what could be good about this suffering.
This is creating so much problems, I can’t see anything good in this. So, then to think that Krishna is causing this and how is it good? We will realize it eventually, but at that time it is extremely difficult to think about how this can be for my good. So, then at that time, if we cannot see the benevolent hand of Krishna in that, if we can’t see the benevolence of Krishna in the suffering, we can at least see the benevolence of Krishna in his providing us a buffer from the suffering.
That means the suffering has come because of my past karma, but if I did not have bhakti, if I did not have the opportunity to remember Krishna, I would have suffered much, much more. I would have suffered much, much more. So, if we see Krishna as the cause of suffering, sometimes because the suffering is too much, it may make it difficult for us to take shelter of Krishna.
But without going into the cause of suffering, I don’t know why this suffering is coming. I don’t even know how it is for my good. But what I do know is that in this suffering, if I don’t take shelter of Krishna, I will suffer much, much more than what I would otherwise.
So, at that time just thinking that Krishna is the shelter from this suffering and not going too much to the cause, that may be the best way at that time when we can take shelter of Krishna. So, that’s my understanding. If you would like to correct anything, please let me know.
Yeah, but then you are fortunate that somehow when the sufferings came, that did not make you averse to Krishna. It has happened to some devotees also. When the sufferings come, that makes them averse to Krishna.
Self-adversity. How much anxiety are you with Krishna? Sometimes, you know, the anxieties that we undergo would appear to be in the form of the most pure nature, but if someone is really dedicated, he will see exactly what self-adversity is. Hmm.
Yeah, that’s true. Yeah, that’s true. Okay, yeah.
Vishal Prabhupada said that we advance to the extent we take anxiety for Krishna’s mission. But then sometimes our anxiety seems to come from our moods and that causes fear and insecurity and worry. So, is that something we should avoid or is that something we should take up? Actually, certainly, as long as we are in Rajoguna, we have some Rajoguna, Atamoguna.
Now, what is going to happen is, we are going to be anxious. And if we don’t take up anxiety for Krishna, then our mind and senses will create some goals for us and we will take anxiety for them. So, anxiety is basically a function of the mode of passion, primarily.
So, if I don’t take up anxiety for Krishna, my mind and senses will set up some goal for me. You have to earn this, you have to get this, you have to achieve this and I will become anxious for those things. So, in that sense, unless we actually come to the mode of goodness, we cannot avoid anxiety.
So, that’s the first point. So, it’s better that rather than just thinking I want to avoid anxiety and then we don’t take up spiritual anxiety, we end up taking up sensual anxiety. It’s better to always take up some anxiety for Krishna’s service, take up some responsibility.
Secondly, also that everything has to be in proportion. That means, if I have to build my muscles, if I can lift up 10 kg, I can try to lift up 11, 12, 13, 14. But if I try to lift up 25 kg, I’ll simply fracture my hands.
So, like that for all of us, we don’t need to take up anxiety in Krishna’s service. But we have to take up anxiety according to our capacity. So, if I take up anxieties which are way beyond my capacity, then that will become pratikul to bhakti.
So, I would say capacity here also means to some extent our nature. Our nature. If somebody has a brahminical nature, they can take up intellectual anxieties.
But if they are told to take up managerial anxieties, that causes too much conflict within them. So, we certainly have to take up anxieties for Krishna’s service, but then they have to be according to our capacity. And when we take them according to our capacity, then that is what, it’s like if I don’t lift up weights, I’m not going to grow.
Similarly, unless we take up anxieties, we won’t grow in spiritual life. But just as it’s not that any weight that I pick up will help me to grow. I have to carefully choose the weights which will help me to grow.
So, in the initial years of our spiritual life, when we come, we are usually told, given some instructions, do this, do this, do this. And we simply follow the instructions. And that’s how it should be.
Initially, we learn obedience and surrender. But over the years, as we observe ourselves, we come to understand what our inspiration is, what our nature is, and in what way we would like to serve. And then we take up anxiety in that field.
So, certainly we have to take up anxiety for Krishna’s service, but then the anxiety has to be uncool. During, there are going to be times when any project, any service you do, there are going to be too much trouble. We feel, why did I take this up also? Sometimes we feel like that.
But overall, in the long run, we feel fulfilled. I was able to do something for Krishna’s service. And we feel purified.
We feel elevated. But if there is again an anxiety for a service which is highly incompatible with us, then it’s mostly stress and tension and frustration. And then we, although even that will purify us, but that will not so much elevate us.
Because we will not feel fulfilled. We will not feel as if we have made an adequate contribution. Sometimes if we take up anxiety in a service which we are not very good at, then not only are we not able to do much of a service, but also others also sometimes get into, get alienated because of the service not being up to a proper way of doing and things like that.
So, anxiety definitely has to be taken up, but it has to be taken up in a way that is uncool to bhakti. So, the way I put it is, you know, everybody has to face problems in life. But the expertise of Varanashram is that it allots to people the kind of problems that they like to face.
So, brahmanas are allotted intellectual problems. Kshatriyas are allotted managerial problems. And now we don’t exactly have Varanashram.
So, quite often it is up to us using our God-given intelligence, using the guidance of Vaishnavas, you know, what service do we take up? What anxiety do we take up from Krishna’s service? Does that address your question? It seems that sometimes… Sorry? I have to… Yeah, please. No, you were saying something. Please.
A lot of times Krishna reveals the way, what He wants. So, He may reveal a path, a service, but in terms of the anxiety, it is clear that that is what He wants. Yeah, if Krishna reveals, then definitely we take it up.
And there is anxiety, but then there is also… You know, if you feel inspired to do something, the empowerment also comes, the ability also comes, and we move onwards. But yes, anything we have to do, we have to take up anxiety. As I said, satatam kirtayanto mam yatantasya dhruva-vrataha 9.14, the Gita is actually talking about very advanced devotees, those who are convinced that mahatmanas tu mam partha daivim prakritasya that is 9.13 to 9.14. So, those who are actually convinced that Krishna is the absolute truth, they know that there is nothing other than Krishna, their mind doesn’t go to anywhere else, even they, when they have to serve in this world, they need dhruva-vrataha.
So, satatam kirtayanto mam yatantasya dhruva-vrataha. They also need determination. They don’t… We need determination to battle against our mind and senses.
They need determination because to do anything in this world requires determination. Even for great devotees, they may not have the internal struggle with their mind and senses. But determination is required for doing something in this world.
So, in that sense, the anxiety is just something which you can’t avoid. And the anxiety, if it makes us remember Krishna more, if it helps us to make a tangible contribution to Krishna’s service, then definitely that anxiety takes us towards Krishna. Mataji, you wanted to say something? Yeah.
So, thank you so much for this mind-cleansing class. I understood some fan is optimistic or something like that. Even to understand the cause, you said about immediate cause and ultimate cause.
I’m not able to quite get that. When we say Krishna at one point, he says, ahamkara-guna-guna-tattva-mukha-manyu-mukha. And here, we are trying to say that in here, which is the cause, Krishna is ultimate cause.
Could you explain further, if a misery happens, what are the different causes and who are responsible? Okay, if a misery happens, who is actually responsible? Yeah. Suppose, there is a thief who has robbed a bank. And then the police come and arrest the person.
And the person is tried in court and put in jail. Now, the thieves going into jail has three causes. First is, the thieves own the robbery.
The second is, the police arresting the person. And the third is, the judge sentencing the person. Now, all three are causes.
So, thief is like the soul. The police is like material nature. And Krishna is like the judge.
So, all three are involved. The Jiva, Ishwara and Prakriti are all involved in the causal chain by which certain reactions come to us. So, now, the police would not have arrested the person and the court would not have sentenced the person if that person had not robbed a bank.
So, in that sense, the person’s robbery is the primary cause. It is the initiating cause without which nothing else could have happened. So, like that, when it comes to taking responsibility for any wrongdoing that has, for any bad thing that happens to us, we have to know that it is my own bad karma which is bringing the consequence.
So, this is a different context. And when Krishna talks about प्रकृते क्रियमाणानि गुणे कर्माणि सर्वश्या अहंकार्विमुरात्ममि कर्ताहमितिमन्यते that only the deluded soul thinks of themselves as a doer. He is talking in an entirely different context.
There, he is talking not so much of assigning karmic responsibility. He is talking more in terms of taking credit for one’s actions. He is talking about, Arjuna, if you think that you are going to win this war, or you are fighting, not fighting, you are going to avoid this war.
That is not the right thing. The war is going to happen. And you will simply be impelled by the moods to do what you like.
So, to do what is according to your सभाव. So, in that sense, you are not free. If you see, at one level, कर्ताहमितिमन्यते says, to think of yourself as a doer is an illusion.
But in the same Gita, at the end, what does Krishna tell Arjuna in 18.63? मिम्रिष्चाहिता दशेशेन यथेच्यस्यता कुरु Deliberate and decide what you want to do. Do. And what does Arjuna also say? करिष्यवचनम्तवा I will do your will.
He is also talking about doer over. So, that means there are two different things. One is with respect to, so the main illusion is not to think that we are the doers.
The main illusion is to think that I am the only doer. So, when I am taking credit for things, if Arjuna thinks that I am winning this war, that is an illusion. So, from that point of view, तत्रैवं सतिकर्तारं आत्मानां केवलं त्रिय पश्यत्य कुद्धित्वाम् नस पश्यति दुर्मति In 18.16 Krishna says, Therefore, आत्मानां केवलं त्रिय One of the things that I am the sole doer, that person is an illusion.
So, the two are different contexts. With respect to thinking about, so the whole focus of the Bhagavad Gita is that we should do our duty. Irrespective of whether we get the result or not.
So, Arjuna, whatever be the result, whether you lose, you win, your relatives die, your relatives do. Arjuna knows that you have to do your part. And if you think that you are causing all these things to happen, then that is an illusion.
So, the Gita’s context is different. Gita is not primarily analyzing karmic reactions. It is analyzing karmic choices.
It is not analyzing what is happening to me and why it is happening to me. It is analyzing what I should be doing. So, that’s why we cannot mix the two frames of analysis.
Thank you very much. Granthraj Srimad Bhagavatam ki Jai. Srila Prabhupada ki Jai.
Gaur Bhaktavrinda ki Jai. Tai Gaur Preman Daye.