Why matter matters; Soul-Body interaction

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
Why matter matters? So, there are several reasons why matter matters. The first reason is that we are trapped in matter. We want to get out of matter.
So, the materialistic people study matter so that they can exploit and enjoy matter. Devotees study matter to appreciate God’s glory as manifested through matter and to transcend matter. So, the purposes are opposite.
Scientists, the atheistic scientists, they study matter for what purpose? To exploit matter and gratify their senses. Devotees study matter to appreciate God’s glory and thus enhance their devotional service on one side and secondly when we understand matter we can transcend matter. So, another reason why we can study matter is because the Vedic literature not only give clear understanding about the spiritual realm but they also give excellent understanding about the material world.
As we will shortly see, the systematic understanding of how, for example, a soul interacts with matter is explained in a way that has no parallels in any of the religious or philosophical traditions of the world. So, the interaction of consciousness and matter is one of the unique revelations within the Vedic tradition and when we understand it clearly then we can also preach with confidence. So, both from a personal application point of view and a preaching application point of view, we can study matter.
And if we look at Srimad Bhagavatam, there are huge sections. The longest canto in the Srimad Bhagavatam is of course the 10th canto. There are 90 chapters out of 335 chapters in Bhagavatam.
Second longest is, almost parallel are the 11th canto and the third canto. And both of them have a lot of analysis of matter. The third canto is teachings of Lord Kapiladeva which is Sankhya.
Sankhya is analysis of matter. And most of my presentation will be based on Sankhya today, from the third canto, 30th chapter which is Fundamental Principles of Material Nature, around about that area, that section. So, the Bhagavatam does devote a lot of time on the study of matter and of course we have the 5th canto, Cosmology.
So, although Prahladishthan Maharaj is on the verge of death, he understands that by understanding matter, I can understand the glory of the Lord. And the third canto in this commentary, Vishwanath Chakravartha writes that, just as Krishna performs pastimes in the spiritual world, Krishna’s pastimes in the material world are Srishti, Siti, Pralaya. Creation, Maintenance, Destruction are the pastimes of the Purusha-avataras.
What pastimes do Purusha-avataras perform? They don’t have any devotees directly, they don’t have any Leelas, their Leela is Srishti. Srishti is creation, then Srishti is maintenance and Pralaya is destruction. So, this is the pastimes of the Supreme Lord.
So, with that vision we understand that it is God acting in the world when we study matter. So, we focus on one aspect of matter, matter itself is huge, all the sciences study matter. So, now this is the basic Vedic ontology.
Ontology means the nature of existence, that branch of knowledge. We study the nature of existence is called as ontology. So, we should not think that the spiritual world is somewhere away and the material world is here.
Actually, the spiritual realm subsumes the material world. That means the material world is contained within the spiritual world. That’s why you see the big black box is the transcendental realm.
And that transcendental realm pervades everywhere. That’s why in that famous 4.24 verse, Brahmaarbanam brahmaavir brahmaagnam brahmanahutam brahmayi vatena gantavyam brahma karma samadhena Brahma verse and it puts people into Brahma. So, many times Brahma comes.
So, in that purpose Prabhupada mentions that absolute truth exists everywhere and the absolute truth is covered by ignorance or a part of the absolute truth is covered by ignorance, then that is called matter. So, the transcendental realm pervades everywhere. That’s why even this is the kingdom of God and the Christians have the idea that we have to go back to the kingdom of God.
But what does it mean? Is God not the king in the material world? He is. But here he is not acknowledged as the king. That’s why they have the idea that that is the kingdom of God and this is not.
But no, this is also the kingdom of God and when we acknowledge God as the king over here, then the material realm, not that the material realm transforms into spiritual, rather the material realm reveals its original spiritual nature to us. It’s originally spiritual because our forgetfulness, it appears material. That’s why it is famous for yatra gayanti madhvakta atratistha minaratam.
So, and Lord is saying that wherever my glories are sung, then that is the spiritual realm. So, now, you know, from the geographical point of view, Surat Kali is one corner of the western part of India. Now, Shantipur is in the eastern part of India.
But we are calling the Shantipur voice. Why? Because the principle of glorification of the Lord is being applied over here. So, the spiritual realm like Shila Prabhupada established new Vrindavan.
Vrindavan is in India, geographically speaking. But actually speaking, Vrindavan is not in India. Vrindavan is in the spiritual world.
So, wherever the devotees try to imbibe the mood of Vrindavan, there Vrindavan will manifest. So, the spiritual realm pervades everywhere. So, we have the Vedic ontology has two worlds and three realms.
Two worlds is material world and spiritual world. But within that there are three realms. There is the gross realm, the subtle realm and the spiritual or transcendental realm.
So, matter has two categories. Now, there is constant interaction between the gross realm and the subtle realm. How is that? The thoughts influence our actions and what we see in the world, what we observe that influence our thoughts.
So, both ways there is constant interaction between the subtle and the gross realm. Now, this is a little analysis of further how this analysis takes, interaction takes place. For example, when we drink water.
Now, water is a, it is one of the gross elements. It is also a sense object. So, now water has gross and subtle properties.
What do you mean by gross and subtle properties? We’ll discuss this. First, let’s look at the gross properties. If somebody says, I’m thirsty, I want one glass of water.
You bring him ice. I don’t want ice, I want water. So, you can look at the gross property.
You can see its liquidity, you can see its volume, you can see its visibility, you can see its stretchability. So, all these are the gross properties. The properties which can be perceived are gross senses and then how do we perceive them? We perceive them with a specific sense that is involved in that purpose.
And most of modern science focusses on the gross properties of matter. The gross properties of matter are as, you know, volume, mass, temperature, viscosity, all these things. They are the gross properties.
You know, Galileo, before Galileo, the idea was that, you know, some matter is ordinary, some matter is special. So, at that time, he is supposed to have done an experiment where he dropped a golden ball and a copper ball of the same mass from a tower. It’s an apocryphal experiment.
It’s legendary. He may or may not have done it actually. But both the balls fell down at the same time on the ground.
Then he decided that means the content of the ball does not make any difference. Actually, the laws of nature apply uniformly to all of matter. And so, from that time, he made a statement that, you know, the book of nature is written in the language of mathematics.
So, we should study nature through mathematics. And from that time onwards, science started focussing on the measurable qualities of nature. Science started focussing on what? Only the measurable qualities of nature.
So, for example, that’s why the taste, to understand it better, let’s go upwards. Now, if we study from the chemical point of view, you know, water is called a tasteless liquid. And Krishna says, I am the taste of water.
So, Krishna, when he dies, likes to challenge our materialistic conceptions to make us rise higher. You know, Krishna could have killed Karna in an ordinary way also. Actually, Arjuna had already defeated Karna in Virat.
But why did Krishna arrange that Arjuna killed unarmed Karna? So that people rise from their ordinary materialistic understandings. Why does God do this? There is transcendental morality. So, Krishna often challenges our conceptions.
So, we have, from biological point of view, water has no taste. Water is a tasteless liquid. That is why people put sugar and they put coke and all those things they try to do.
So, Krishna is saying, I am the taste of water. So, what is the correlation between the two? The correlation is that science only focusses on measurable properties of things. So, now, when you talk about measurable properties, then if you look at the five sense objects, five sense objects are what? I am not talking about senses, sense objects.
So, we have the form, the taste, the touch, the fragrance, and smell. And sound. So, rupa, rasa, sparsha, gandha and sabda.
So, these are the five tanmatras. Now, these five sense objects are what create all the variety and the speciality in the material world. So, when we have, say, kirtans, nobody will go and tell other people, yesterday we had a thousand decibel kirtan.
Okay, it is a thousand decibel, but what does that convey? Yes, the measurable aspect of the sound is there, but the measurable aspect of the sound doesn’t lead to any experience. And the whole person will be very loud, cute and that. That’s all that you can convey.
So, for example, you know, if there is nice, yesterday evening we had the sweet rice. So, you want to say, oh, yesterday sweet rice, you had put one kg of sugar in it. Yeah, we may have done that.
We don’t deny the measurable aspect of matter. But that’s not what conveys the experience. We say it’s a delicious sweet rice.
So, what is that deliciousness? That is something which is tasted by the tongue. And there is no way like, you know, there are these big big industries, food manufacturing industries. So, when they make this food manufacturing industry, they have the quality control units.
So, in the quality control units, you know, they cannot have a machine to test the quality of the food. They can have a machine to monitor what all ingredients go into it. And logically speaking, you can have, you can assume that all the different ingredients come together in this proportion, this will be the taste.
But nobody, no machine can taste and tell you, this is good, this is not good. You need a human agent for that. Because taste itself is not a measurable quality.
Taste itself is not measurable objectively. It’s not measurable objectively. It’s measurable subjectively.
Today was, today’s prasadam was sattvic. So, sattvic is a polite way of saying that it is not very delicious. The point is that you need a subjective conscious person to measure, or for that matter, any sense of beauty.
I talk about sound, I talk about taste, beauty. If you tell that, oh, I made this painting with this much millimetre of this colour and this much millimetre of this colour. It’s fine, that doesn’t convey anything about the beauty.
So, like that, now, if you see even in the computer sometimes when we make posters, at that time, you have this whole facility in Photoshop and other places that can have this composition, this colour, this composition, this colour, you can just move your cursor and, you know, you can become virtual creators, changing the colours and compositions. But, you can decide the composition, but the computer cannot tell whether it is a good picture or not. Whether the layout looks beautiful or not.
And you can decide a particular percentage, this percentage, this percentage, this percentage, but you use it for one poster and you want to use it for another poster, that same percentage and composition may not look good. Why? Because aesthetics is not measurable by science. So, now, if you see all that I am talking about is, we are not even talking about the spiritual realm.
We are talking only about the material realm. Even what we experience as the most important part of the material realm is beyond the reach of science. Why? Because science focusses only on the measurable aspects of matter.
And all the aesthetic experience through sound, through taste, through touch, through sight, and through fragrance. For example, when we make a perfume, when we make a perfume, you know, you can decide this quantity will produce this much particular fragrance. But the fragrance itself cannot have a metre to measure the fragrance.
It can have a metre to, okay, this much composition of matter we have put in. Our point is that for the subjective experience, there has to be a conscious person. So, matter has both subtle properties and gross properties.
So, in the scientific language, the gross properties are called as physical properties. The subtle properties are called as phenomenal properties. You know, Prabhupada uses that word.
Where does Prabhupada use the word phenomenal in Bhagavad Gita? Anyone remembers? I have given you knowledge, both nominal and phenomenal. So, knowledge of the nominal and the phenomenal world. So, what is nominal, what is phenomenal? Just read it and go ahead.
So, nominal refers to that which is real. Nominal means real, that’s the western philosophical understanding. Prabhupada uses that understanding there.
So, that which is fundamental, that is foundational, that is real. And then there is phenomenal. Phenomenal means that which results from the boundary reality.
So, now in philosophy, both eastern and western, there is always this question, you know, how can you be sure that the external world exists? Just like we experience practically all that we experience in our waking stage, in the sleeping stage, in dream. In dream if you see, we can experience everything. We can experience roop, parasas, parashay, gandha and shabda.
We can experience all of it. And we call the dream experience as unreal. Because when we wake up, it is no longer there.
That’s the logical understanding. It’s temporary. But then by the same logic, we can say that even our waking experience is temporary.
Because when we sleep, the experience is no longer there. And when we die, after that the experience will no longer be there. So, science is still not able to decide whether the external world is real or not.
But science operates on the fundamental faith that the world is real. There is no way any scientist can prove that the world as we know it actually exists. It’s an assumption.
It’s a matter of faith. And without that faith, science itself would not be able to function. Because, you know, if you think about it, all the experiences that we get in waking stage, we get in the dream stage.
Everything. You know, somebody beats us, somebody can beat us in the dream also. So, everything can happen.
Every single thing. And it’s not that the dream experiences are less real for us when we are experiencing them. They are equally real.
So, science itself is very confused. Especially because now quantum physics is challenging our notions of reality. Because quantum physics says everything is just wave functions.
So, what is real? See, actually what is happening is, originally science started off as theory to explain protection. You know, science is basically anuman. Anuman is for what purpose? To explain protection.
So, the anumanwadis are called as rationalists. And protection wadis are called as empiricists. So, empiricists and rationalists.
So, originally what was the purpose of science? You do anuman, explain protection. How is that? Ok. You just saw fruit falling.
That is the protection. Then you do anuman. Ok, why is this protection happening? Why is this protection happening? Because there is a law of relativity.
That’s the anuman. That’s the hypothesis theory. That’s the rational proposition.
But then, as science started going deeper and deeper into its rational propositions, then what happened? The anuman started getting more and more intricate. And the anuman lost its touch with protection. So, now, actually within the philosophers of science, there is a debate.
Which is real? Is protection real or anuman real? Because by anuman, we have quantum theory coming up. And quantum theory says everything is just wave functions. And by protection, we see that this world is not wave functions.
So, now, that means, you see, practically speaking, without shabda, protection and anuman, we just keep fighting with each other. You will not get any conclusive understanding. So, anyway, the point which we are discussing here is that science operates in the faith that the external world is real.
And why is that faith being challenged? Because now their anuman is making them feel that the protection is not real. So, what the Vedic culture, Vedic philosophy explains us is that in the Bhagavatam, that the external world is real. And the subjective experience is as real as the objective experience.
The objective experience I have, ok, I feel this is a mass over here. So, mass, length, weight, I can measure that. Subjective qualities which lead to the experience of aesthetics are something which are beyond the realm of science.
But the subjective qualities are real. If they were not real, then science has this reductionistic idea. Reductionistic idea means you take an object, cut it down into components, components, components, and then whatever you get at the foundation, that is what is the most fundamental understanding.
Then you move upward, upward, upward, then you get the clearer understanding. But actually, that is erroneous. And how this understanding arose is because science had its greatest success in physics originally.
All this, you see, Newton’s theories are proposed in physics. So, and through that they were able to explain so much of matter. And when they were able to explain through matter, they felt very confident.
Then they started looking at the interactions of matter. Chemistry came. You follow? Principles of physics work in chemistry also.
Very good. That means in the interactions of matter also. Then they came to life.
So, basically, current study of biology is applied physics and applied chemistry. That’s why matter is considered as foundation. And from matter we try to understand consciousness.
We try to understand life. But there is an obvious flaw in this approach. Because biology, the biological matter behaves in an entirely different way from physical matter.
What is the difference? We know that physical matter basically undergoes three changes. Creation, deterioration, destruction. But biological matter undergoes six changes.
Creation, maintenance, growth, reproduction and then destruction. So, now if I break this bar, it won’t turn. It will just break and the crack will stay.
But if suppose somebody cuts my hand, it will clot and heal. That’s maintenance. And the person grows.
Imagine if you are sitting here and this mic starts growing, growing, growing, growing suddenly. Things don’t happen like that. Of course, if our voice structure grows, it will be nice.
We don’t see matter growing. And certainly matter doesn’t reproduce. Matter doesn’t reproduce.
So, therefore, biology is not applied physics and chemistry. Although science thinks like that. That means, yes, so at the level of life, science is facing a lot of problems in explaining things.
You just can’t explain why matter grows, why matter reproduces, why matter maintains itself. They can say that the homeostasis takes place. But why it takes place, they can’t explain.
So, like that they can’t explain consciousness. But then when consciousness interacts with matter, there is subjective experience. Subjective experience means, this is beautiful, this is not so good, this is excellent.
Subjective experience cannot be explained by science also. So, basically consciousness and the interaction of consciousness with matter is like a black hole for science. All the knowledge goes and they get lost.
What is happening over here? So, that’s why there are these two aspects. So, when we say water has taste, what does the taste of water mean? It is not a measurable chemical put in water. But actually, the water or liquidity is what enables us to access all the taste in this world.
We say that as soon as there is a delicious item, the mouth waters. Now, if there is a disease in which people’s tongue doesn’t manifest saliva only. There are all kinds of diseases in the world.
So, the tongue doesn’t manifest saliva. So, they can’t taste any food only. So, they may chew it and churn it and eat it and get self also.
But they can’t experience taste. Why? Because it is the liquidity, the saliva that is there, that is water. So, it is the liquid which has the property to give us the ability to experience taste.
So, the liquidity is what enables us to access all tastes. And in that sense, water is the foundation of all tastes. I am the taste of water.
What does it mean? That means it is through water that we can experience all tastes. So, it’s an elaborate subject. I’ll just, I know this is a big diagram, but don’t be frightened.
It’s very simple. So, if any of you have studied the Chetan Charita Amrit, or you must have heard all this, how each of the elements is contained in successive elements. So, sound is the original element.
So, sound is conveyed by ether. Now, sound expands as what? As touch. And from the touch, the element air manifests.
So, air basically has these two sense objects associated with it. Air has sound and touch associated with it. Similarly, fire has form, touch and sound associated with it.
Water has taste. So, it’s like increasing sex within it, each of them. And then there is finally smell.
I am the fragrance of the earth. So, now, that is not the important part over here. And this we are talking about interaction of matter and spirit.
So, we have the five Jnana Indriyas. And then we have the five Karma Indriyas. So, where does the interaction of matter and spirit take place? We have the soul.
Now, the soul has, we generally know the subtle body has three aspects. Mind, intelligence and ego. But actually, it has a fourth aspect also.
In the 13th chapter of the Bhagavad Gita, when Krishna talks about Sankhya, Sankhya is the analysis of matter. So, there he describes the 26 elements and then he says, Isha, Dvesha, Sukham, Dukham, Sanghatas Chetanadruti, Etak Chetram Samasena, Savikaram Udharatam. So, interestingly, he puts Chetana.
Chetana is consciousness. He puts Chetana as a transformation of matter. Now, we know Chetana is transcendental.
So, how can Chetana be transformation of matter? So, actually, original matter is, original consciousness is transcendental. So, this is an elaborate subject, but briefly, there is Chit and there is Chitta. Chit is Chit Shakti, conscious energy.
So, Chit is transcendental. The original soul’s self-consciousness is called Chit. But when that consciousness is rooted through matter, that is called as contaminated consciousness.
And that is Chitta. So, Chit and Chitta. So, the soul has its own spiritual, self or the soul has its own spiritual life in the spiritual world with Krishna.
And that time what is manifesting is Chit. But Chitta means the contaminated consciousness. Just like the person is sitting and now he can look at the world around him.
When he sits and starts watching television. Then his consciousness is entering into the illusory world created by the television. So, like that the soul’s original consciousness is called Chit.
But the soul’s consciousness is rooted into matter, that contaminated consciousness, consciousness which is contaminated by contact with matter is called Chit. That’s why mind, intelligence, ego and contaminated consciousness. So, these four are called as Antahkarana.
Karana means sense. So, internal senses. So, actually the mind is also classified by Krishna as Manah Shishtani Indriyani.
So, they are the Antahkarana, they are the internal senses. These four are the internal senses. And beyond that there are the Anu Indriya, atomic senses or subtle senses.
Which are the subtle senses? Corresponding to the gross sensory organ there is an internal sense. There is an internal sense. And that internal sense is for example, eye.
So, when we are closing our eyes, our eyes are getting nothing. But when we are seeing some images in our mind is eye as we see. That is actually to the atomic senses.
And after that, now let’s see how we see. This is something very interesting. What is in neuroscience, it is called as the binding problem.
Binding problem means, this is the last technical part of it. So, don’t be alarmed. What is the binding problem? I mentioned this last time when I had come.
For example, if a bird flies in front of my eyes, then now scientists have found that different parts of the brain are connected with a different sensory impulses. So, now of course all the stimuli of the bird flying will go through my eye, will come in front of my eyes. So, it will enter the eyeballs and from the retina there is an optic nerve.
From the optic nerve it will go into the cortex, the visual cortex. The area of the brain which is connected with the seeing, optical area of the brain. But now within the brain, the areas, there are specific areas for connected with colour, connected with shape, connected with motion, colour, shape, motion.
There are separate areas. And so, separate areas in the brain get stimulated. But I don’t see first shape and then I see colour and then I see motion and then I wonder what is all this.
No. We get an integrated image. So, where does the integration take place? Science has absolutely no idea where the integration takes place.
Because there is no, each of the neurone, each of the neuronal cells is connected with many other cells. Millions of cells you can say they are connected because they are all very small. But still there is no part of the brain which is connected with every other cell.
There is no like a centre of the brain. There is no part of the brain that is connected with every other part of the brain. So, because they are all interconnected.
So, and generally speaking, signals, they come in through the various dendrites, but they go through the axon to the synapse. So, you know, it can, one cell can receive many signals, but can transmit one signal. So, it’s like that.
It’s a very complicated structure of the brain. And science has not even understood it completely. But one point is clear.
There is no section which can actually integrate. So, where does the integration of all the sensory impulses take place? It’s a big problem. And without the integration, there will be no experience.
No coherent experience will be there. Sometimes if you are seeing a movie, sometimes you make a documentary. So, what happens? When you make a documentary, you make the visuals and then you have the voiceover.
So, the voiceover and the visuals are not synchronised. Or sometimes if you have a translation, the subtitles are there. So, what happens sometimes? The person has already spoken and other people are laughing.
And those people who are not synchronised, they don’t understand what is happening. The subtitles come late. So, you know, that sort of desynchronisation doesn’t happen in our experience.
First the word goes by and then we hear something. What happened? It’s not like that. So, how does this whole synchronised experience come to us? So, that is, integration takes place in the internals, antahakaran.
So, antahakaran, what is that? The mind, intelligence and ego. Along with the chitta, the entire consciousness. So, the mind integrates all the entities.
The mind is a subtle element. And the mind actually is just like in our body, earth, water, fire, air and ether are all pervading. It’s not that here the earth is there and here the water is there.
No, it’s all pervading. So, like that, mind, intelligence and ego are also all pervading. So, technically speaking, the soul is situated in the region of the heart.
But, the soul is in the region of the heart and we see one form around it, one circle, subtle body and we see another circle, gross body. Okay, that’s simplistic. Because the subtle body pervades the whole body.
So, the interaction between the soul and matter or gross matter takes place through the subtle body. Mainly through the mind. And the mind is connected with the brain.
So, the visual areas of the brain are stimulated. And there is subtle connection between the brain and the mind. And whatever impulses are there in the mind, they get all integrated with whatever impressions.
Sensory impressions come in the brain, they get integrated with the mind. So, when we see a bird flying by, it’s not that some signals go off and like how it happens on television, live telecast is going on. So, how the live telecast happens is, suppose the World Cup is going on, somebody is hitting a six.
So, you know what happens, he is swinging his hand and now those signals are converted into some sort of electromagnetic signals. And then that same image is reproduced from television screen. But there is no, so it’s not that same thing happens in the brain.
Because there is no place in the brain where the integration, the reproduction will take place. So, I am seeing you, some of you are concentrating, some of you are lost. Some of you are, some of you are just wondering when this will get over.
So, whatever it is, when I am seeing you, it’s not that these signals are coming and a reproduction of this, reproduction of your form is happening in my brain. Because the brain is just different neural signals, that cannot reproduce. So, integration, it takes place in the mind.
And then the mind is like the TV screen and the soul is it. The soul responds to it. This is how the self pervades the body by, body parts by consciousness.
So, consciousness is there everywhere. The soul’s consciousness, first is in the mind, then it’s in the gross senses and then it is in the subtle senses. Subtle senses and then the gross senses.
Now, this has tremendous explanatory value. So, what is the explanatory value? Just one experience will take. All of you have heard of outer body experience.
So, now, outer body experience, how do they happen? Most scientists say they don’t happen only. But actually there are so many, almost over 150 years, scientists have done proper research. In the last 50 years, they are monitoring it.
So, for example, what scientists did was, somebody may say I had outer body experience. How do you know? So, they said that most of the outer body experience happens in cardiac arrest patients. And cardiac arrest, that whole department of care of heart patients is well developed.
So, they monitor everything in the cardiac arrest patients. And they have found at times, the brain is completely inactive. The brain is dead.
So, when a person gets a heart attack, the heart stops pumping. If you have seen the surgery, one of our devotees, he was just sitting in Bhagavatam class in Chowpadi. Boom! He fell down.
He was standing. He got a heart attack in the Bhagavatam class only. Of course, it is good to get a heart attack in the Bhagavatam class.
They will go back to God, you know. We would like all devotees to be here and preach. So, then suddenly, the other devotee was a doctor.
He took his whole fist. Boom! He just banged him on the chest. Why? Because you have to make the heart pump again.
If the heart stops pumping, then what happens? The blood flow to the brain stops. When a person dies, why does he die? Because the blood flow to the brain stops. Then oxygen to the brain stops.
When oxygen to the brain stops, that is called anoxia. Anoxia means lack of oxygen in the brain. And that causes death.
Oh no! You feel as if you are going to kill him by beating him. But when the heart attack comes, you know, it is affordable to even break the ribs of the person. But you have to make the heart start functioning.
Because what happens is that blood gets jammed. Because of RTS sclerosis. So, boom! You beat him and you force the blood which is jammed to go through the choke arteries.
Like when there is a choke and you push something. It goes like that. You beat the heart.
The blood cannot go anywhere. So, boom! It just breaks the choke and it goes through. So, like that they do.
The point is that there is brain death. So, brain death means what happens? The brain stops functioning. So, when the brain stops functioning, current science says that there cannot be any consciousness.
Because their idea of consciousness is that yes, there are all these stimulations of neurones, neuronal firings and that is what causes consciousness. So, there are times when the brain is completely dead. And the person has a lot of consciousness.
I saw this, I saw that, I experienced this. This is biologically impossible. And there is this story in America.
There was this lady who got a heart attack. And she was in the ICU. And her relatives were waiting.
And the treatment was going on for a long time. Trying to resuscitate her. So, one of her brother-in-law, he said, she is going to kick the bucket.
Kick the bucket means the place for dying. She is going to kick the bucket. She had better do it soon.
Because I have an appointment in one hour. And you know, at that time she was floating it out of the body. She heard it.
So, they were far away from the surgery room. But then she came back to consciousness. And when she came back to consciousness, she called her relatives.
She said, thank you for your love. So, the point is that there are very well documented records of outer body experiences. Now, first of all, nobody will say like this.
Even if somebody has said like that, nobody will tell that to the dead person. And this was the first thing that she said as soon as she came back to consciousness. There is no normal way she could have known it.
So, like that, there are many well documented cases of outer body experiences. So, now, scientists do not know how outer body experiences happen. So, how do they happen? This is a further elaboration.
So, normally what happens? The consciousness of the soul is routed through the subtle body to the gross body. So, normal consciousness is the signal is going to the eyes, then to the visual area, then into the internal eyes, and then into the subtle body, and then to the soul. But that is not the only way the soul can perceive.
So, in outer body experiences, if the person’s brain is dead, that means the eyeballs are not having any stimulation, the brain is not having any stimulation. But the soul has the subtle senses also. So, through the subtle body he perceives.
The self pervades the body by consciousness. So, the visual data goes in through the subtle body. And that’s why the person can perceive.
So, like this, many of the so-called paranormal phenomena are there, which science has become completely incapable of explaining. So, they are able to explain all of it. Our Vedic understanding of Sankhya, they are able to explain all of it.
So, as devotees, we study Sankhya for what purpose? First, to understand the sophisticated nature of God’s creation. Explanatory power of the philosophy that God has given to us. And secondly, to transcend it.
So, just like Kapil Vivek spoke Sankhya, there is another scholar of Sankhya called Eshwar Krishna. Chakravarthi Prabhapada quoted several times, and you know, this Kondivod is also named Eshwar Krishna. So, yes, Krishna is Eshwar, that’s fine, but Eshwar Krishna is also the name of a person.
So, he gives a very interesting analogy of how the Purusha, in Sankhya there is Purusha and Prakriti. So, how the Purusha becomes detached from Prakriti. How the soul becomes detached from matter.
All this analysis is fine, but what is the purpose of all this analysis? To understand that there is nothing special in matter. Matter is completely unconscious, unawakened, it is dead. So, when you use the example, if a dancer, if a lady dancer is dancing, and she is dancing quite artistically, moving her hands and legs, and the audience, the spectator is captivated.
The spectator is watching her, he is captivated. But then this dancer, she knows only a few steps of dancing. She knows only few types of dances, or few steps in dancing.
And once that is over, then what happens? The spectator loses interest. The spectator loses interest, he is not looking here and there. Then she doesn’t want to lose the spectator.
She starts trying to do some new steps, move her hands, move her legs, do something. But no matter how much she tries to move her hands and legs, she doesn’t know any new steps. So, what will happen? She will again fall back to the old steps only.
And as soon as the spectator will go, it is the old step again, then he will lose interest. But again she will try to do some new steps. And then again something new will happen, he will again pay attention.
But then he will again say old thing, then he will lose interest. So, he says this is how it goes on, till the spectator understands that this is a trick. As she actually doesn’t know any new steps.
And therefore there is no use in paying attention. So, he says like that, matter, you know, promises us many many new pleasures. Matter comes in various forms, various shapes, various tastes, various colours, and promises us new pleasures.
And all the time matter is coming in new new new forms. But, all the pleasures boil down to Ahaar, Indra, Bhai, Maithunam. Eating, sleeping, waiting, defending.
So, whatever Maya promises, even if you become a big millionaire, you become whatever, big cricketer, ultimately after becoming a cricketer, what is the pleasure for you? It’s not that just because you are a cricketer, you have some other pleasure. No, the pleasures are ultimately eating, sleeping, waiting, defending. The pleasures are the satisfaction of lust, anger, greed, envy, pride and illusion.
There is no other pleasure available. So, just as the intelligent spectator should see through the ruse of the dancer. Ruse means trick of the dancer.
So, like that, the intelligent, the spiritualist, sees through the ruse of Maya. He understands that matter may come in all kinds of bewildering varieties. But, there is nothing new in matter.
Nothing new in matter. And as soon as we start losing interest, matter will come in some new form. New attraction, new enjoyment will come.
But, we should understand that nothing new is a trick. It’s a trick. So, just as a dancer may try desperately to keep attention.
So, like that, Maya will try desperately. As soon as you start getting detached from Maya, Maya will try to show some new temptation, some new allurement, some new sense object, some new thing. But, there is nothing new.
So, philosophically, when we understand this, the key is to understand that beyond apparent newness, there is total oldness. There is only apparent newness. But, it’s completely old.
Punah punash, charvita charvananam. Chewing the chew. It’s entirely the same old thing.
There is nothing new in the material realm. Material realm may be sophisticated for analysis, which is fine. But, there is no new pleasure that is there in the material realm.
And, once the soul understands it, the soul becomes detached. Soul loses interest in the dance that Maya is performing. Then, he can turn towards the dance that Krishna is performing.
Prabhupada tells in the Prabhupada tells in the Rasila section, Krishna books, that you know, everybody is dancing. Everybody is dancing. It’s Rasila only.
But, some people are dancing Rasila in Yogmaya. Some people are dancing in Mahamaya. Some people are dancing in Mahamaya.
There is not Rasila, there is Raskalila. So, actually, as soon as we get out, this dance is nothing, nothing special in this dance. We understand that.
So, actually the trick is, by seeing the dance, we will never understand it is special. First, we have to hear. Hear that there is nothing new in it.
And, with that vision, when we observe, oh, there is nothing new. But, without Shabda, we hear, then what happens? Without Shabda, sorry, without Shabda, if we see, we will never realise it is new. Just like, see, what do you mean by Sakshatkar? That is philosophical speculation.
What is philosophical speculation? We use Anuman to harmonise our protection with Shabda. I will repeat this. What is philosophical speculation? We use Anuman to harmonise our protection with Shabda.
Use our Anuman to harmonise our protection with Shabda. That means, for example, say, some very like, there was Michael Jackson, very famous, fabulously wealthy, enormously popular, but then what happened? He died a pitiful death. So, now this is a protection.
This is a protection we see. For materialistic people, because there is no Shabda, so what will happen? Oh, such a tragic death he died. Such a big person.
So famous. He could have enjoyed so much more, but he died. He could have enjoyed, and through his dance, he could have enjoyed.
That is the idea. So, through protection, there is very rarely any philosophical understanding that comes. But, Shabda tells us, nobody can be happy in this world.
No matter how much material fame, material assets, material wealth, we achieve, we can never be happy. This is Shabda. So, we see protection, that this particular person has died.
And then, we do Hanuman. What he achieved, is what everyone else is aspiring for. Everybody else, they may not specifically want to become musical stars, but everybody wants fame, everybody wants wealth, everyone wants admirers and fans.
So, everybody is aspiring for it. And he was so busy. That means, I do Hanuman.
What is true for him, is true for me, and true for everyone else. So, the path that he took, leading to his frustration and death, that’s what it will lead me towards. If you read Radhanath Mala Journey Home, that’s what happened.
What is the name of that star, who took overdose of drugs and committed suicide? Jimi Hendrix. So, then that was what shook all the other epics of Lamenting of Jimi Hendrix past away. But Maharaj realised, he was completely different.
What is the use of pursuing this? So, that way, what happens is, now somebody who is already very spiritually advanced, he has shabda from his, whether he has come from the spiritual world or from spiritual advancement, from previous advancement, from previous lives. So, you get the understanding. So, basically, what is realisation? Realisation and philosophical speculation are in one sense similar.
We use Hanuman to harmonise our pratyaksha with shabda. Pratyaksha, we are such a big person, why are we so miserable? That means, by becoming big in this world, we don’t become free from it, we stay in this world. And then, that’s the shabda already.
So, by Hanuman, we harmonise pratyaksha with shabda. And that is called as philosophical speculation, that is realisation. So, like this, all of us have had some realisations about how material pleasure doesn’t lead to happiness.
So, we have a pratyaksha anubhav. We try to enjoy in particular, it didn’t give us pleasure. But, what happens is, this particular form did not give me pleasure, but the next form will give me pleasure.
Next form will give me pleasure. Like, when people get married, many devotees, sorry, devotees tell that, the rules of marriage, that one should have sex only for procreation, that is not so easy to follow initially. But, after a few years of practising Krishna consciousness, it becomes relatively easy to follow.
So, now, does that mean that they become sense-controlled? No. It doesn’t mean they become sense-controlled. Because one has lived with a particular body, enjoyed a particular body, so, that body loses charm.
But, doesn’t mean that sex itself has lost its charm. What has happened is, okay, that body one has enjoyed one thing, so, that body is not enjoyable. But, there are so many other bodies, and they all look very attractive.
If we don’t control our senses, what to speak of becoming brahmacharis, becoming, our mind will not even allow us to be grahasthas, will not even allow us to be grahamins. It will make us want to do, I will just tell you what all is happening, you know. There is sex, then now there is, there is homosexuality, there is bisexuality, there are all sorts of crazy things happening.
Why? Because people don’t have that understanding that, okay, this form doesn’t make me happy, that will make me happy, that will make me happy. There is no end to that. So, the pratyaksha might come.
But, through the pratyaksha, we should do Hanuman. Just like this pratyaksha was disappointing, all pratyaksha will be disappointing. And therefore, let me not go in this direction.
So, in this way, if, as all of us have had some experiences of material pleasures which didn’t satisfy us, but still, the hope is there. There are so many other pleasures which I have not enjoyed. When I enjoy them, I will become happy.
But that is where we should do philosophy. Just like this pratyaksha, you know, this was one dance I saw, it didn’t make me happy. But then, you go and, there are so many other dances we advertise, go and see those dances.
But, even they will not make us happy. When we understand this, you know, I will conclude with this point. In the Uddhava Gita, Arjuna asked Krishna many questions.
Sorry, not Arjuna, Uddhava asked Krishna many questions. It is very similar to Bhagavad Gita. In fact, when Uddhava asked Krishna about the three modes, so Krishna also says, what you have asked me, Arjuna asked me earlier also the same thing.
Right? There was an emergency. So, I will speak more elaborately to you now. So, Uddhava Gita is old, Uddhava Gita is very long.
So, there, Uddhava asked Krishna, what is, he asked various definitions. What is happiness? What is misery? What is friendship? Like, we have Ramananda Raya and Shaitanya Mahaprabhu’s conversation. So, there he said something very interesting.
What is misery? He is not talking at a bhakti level. Bhakti comes at the end of the Uddhava Gita. Uddhava Gita is mostly jnan, and end bhakti.
So, from the bhakti point of view, what does Ramananda Raya say is misery? Lack of association of devotees. Satisfied, Uddhava Gita, Krishna has a very interesting answer. He says, dukkham kama sukha peksha.
He says, what is misery? Misery is to expect pleasure from sense gratification. Why? When we expect pleasure from sense gratification, that keeps us in perpetual dissatisfaction. You know, when people get into their puberty, puberty means teenage years, when the sexual glands are activated, then they are perpetually dissatisfied.
Now, I’ll get pleasure. Now, I’ll get pleasure. Now, I’ll get pleasure.
Constant hankering. So, Krishna says, what is misery? Dukkham kama sukha peksha. So, as long as we do a peksha of kama sukha, we’ll be miserable.
So, with our intelligence, we understand that there is no kama sukha. Matter may come in new forms, but there are no new pleasures over there. Then, we become free from that misery.
We become free from that hankering. And once we are free from that hankering, then we will find that life will open new dimensions. So, when the ghost of lust stops haunting us, then we’ll see how Krishna consciousness is so wonderful.
We’ll relish Krishna consciousness and then we’ll find the bhaktis to become joyfully performed. We can all pray to Krishna, who is ultimately the source of all wisdom. As paramatma, he gave us the intelligence to see through the illusions of maya and then march ahead joyfully in Krishna consciousness.
So, to summarise, I started first by talking about how the spiritual realm pervades the material realm and underlies the material realm. Then, we discussed about the analysis of matter, how matter has subtle and gross properties, the physical and phenomenological properties. So, there we discussed elaborately about how science cannot not only experience the spiritual realm but it cannot even explain the experiential side of the material realm because science focusses only on measurable aspects.
Then we discussed how the soul interacts through the antahakaran. Antahakaran is mana buddhi, ankara and chitta. So, chitta is different from chitta.
Chitta is original pure consciousness, chitta is contaminated consciousness, rooted through matter. So, the soul interacts through the antahakaran with the body. And then we discussed how many of the phenomena which cannot be explained in modern science or even in other religions can be systematically explained through the Vedic ontology.
We discussed one experience as outer body experiences. And lastly we concluded how the dancer does not know new steps. understanding this, we give up the hope for material pleasures.
And then we find that there is unlimited hope for happiness in Krishna consciousness. Thank you very much. I bow to the Supreme Being.
I bow to the Supreme Being. Hare